Celine O'Donovan- Carrying The Gifts Out of the Devastation

Brian Smith  0:01  
Now that you're here at Grief 2 Growth, I like to ask you to do three things. The first thing is to make sure that you like click Notifications, and subscribe to make sure you get updates for my YouTube channel. Also, if you'd like to support me financially, you can support me through my tip jar at grief to growth.com. That's grief, the number two growth.com/tip jar or look for tip jar at the very top of the page, or buy me a coffee at the very bottom of the page and you can make a small financial contribution. The third thing I'd like to ask is to make sure you share this with a friend through all your social media, Facebook, Instagram, whatever. Thanks for being here. Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if like a seed we've been planted and having been planted, who grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith. Hi everybody. This is Brian back with another episode of grief to growth. Today I've got with me a very special guest as always, but her name is Celine O'Donovan. And Selena is a native of Salthill. Galway. And if you're like I am you don't know where that is, but it's an Ireland. She's following an international career in marketing for over 25 years, she's now a published author. And the change of direction was accelerated by personal lessons that she learned after her diagnosis with breast cancer in 2016. And it's aftermath. And her message is nothing happens by chance at all life events are sent dispersed spiritual growth enabled us to fulfill our individual gifts. This reframing of how we see our lives now shapes her writing. Her mission is to create personal and practical epiphany moments that allow her readers to discover this for themselves. Themes of creative expression, authenticity, and personal sovereignty are explored through their personal journey that was prompted by her cancer experience. So with that, I want to welcome to grief to grow Selena Donovan.

Celine O'Donovan  2:21  
Hi, Brian, thank you very much for having me.

Brian Smith  2:25  
Yeah, it's really good, really good to meet you. We're just talking where we're, you're in Ireland, which you gotta get you guys have St. Patrick's Day coming up, I'm in Ohio. It's a pretty big day here too, and springs in the air. So it's, it's a really great time to be to be doing this and talking about, you know, your, your personal journey and how you've kind of had this renewal that was prompted by by your cancer experience. So start wherever you like, and tell me your what, what led you to the point where you are now?

Celine O'Donovan  2:54  
Oh, that's okay. What I the way I'll describe it, because I sort of divided up often into my life, pre best breast cancer and my life after because the only way I can describe it is really like a rebirth. It's an it's been a process, you know, it's still unfolding every time I think I've got to somewhere in this and you know, I know something, go Oh, wow. And it's something else is revealed. And that's the wonder of this, you're sort of going deeper and deeper at fields into it. So yeah, I just maybe take give a little sense of what my life was like and who I was before it. And then what happened. So yeah, I grew up in in Galway in Ireland and the middle child of a brother and a sister. I talked about this a little bit really recently because I launched my book recreations retreat that I just mentioned to you there on the west coast of Ireland a couple of weeks ago. And how I broke my story down or explainers. I don't know if you remember the TV show Born Free, do you or the movie and the couple of joy Adamson and her husband, I was thinking about that TV show. And now this might sound like I'm going off a little bit, but it just really parallels with my own life story. So I was preparing to speak at that event. And the theme of this was all about personal expressions of freedom and what does it mean to be free? And as I was thinking about it, I remembered back to that TV show and I was about six or seven and I just remembered this joy when I watched it. I felt so free inside and I hadn't connected with that I'm now 54 So that was a long time ago and I went back and I watched a trailer again on YouTube and I felt the same feeling Wow, what is that? That wasn't just the show and what they were doing you know they were they basically for any one of your listeners who hasn't heard or seen it? They rescue a lion called whose mother's die you so this lion cub was born free. They bring her in and they domesticate her so She lives with them domestication after a number of years, they realize this isn't very fair. She's a wild animal of free spirit, she needs to be set free. But they have to prepare her to return to the wild and live free again. And I read that and I went, Wow, that feels like my life story that sort of feels like where I've been that as a very young child, I have very, very strong memories of being very connected to something much bigger than myself. And it's only now I'm beginning to see what was going on. Because I had, I was very chatty as a very young child. And I can have a memory of an awful lot of information or words coming through, I just couldn't stop talking. And, and everybody, but that became something like, oh, we need to get her to go to elocution, and slow her down. So there was all these just within the systems that we live in sort of saying no, no, it's not good to be talking all the time. But I didn't know how to regulate whatever was coming in, it was just this joy and talking, talking, talking.

So I so that was that was Airlie, me. And then I started to suppress the voice because I started to become, you know, this isn't really acceptable in normal everyday life to be non stop talking. And an alto was quite emotional as a child, but a lot of motion going on, I could feel a lot around me, I could feel a lot on my family. And again, the world I sort of came into that wasn't really, you know, let's say, not accepted. But it was just it wasn't, I learned that I had to do to provide safety or my sense of well being I need to keep my voice sort of quiet. And I needed to keep my emotions in now that was all unconscious. But it's only as I check back, I also then had my tonsils taken out as a very young child, when I was two, it was a lot of trauma with that. And that's all connected with the voice, you know, the throat chakra, when you look at it, I have nightmares for about a month after that my mother said, so little piece, piece by piece, I just started to go, okay, something happened at a very young age, we are all born, I really believe that or no, we're very connected to where we came from our source from God, whatever that is for you, or whatever anyone you know, your true nature. And the systems and the world we come into often doesn't, let's say, nurture that off, you know, not always, in some cases, maybe. And so I we all learn, we go into family systems, education systems, work systems, and we take on this role, that's how my understanding, so I took on this role in the world, which was I need to keep my voice down, I need to keep my emotions in, I need to behave a certain way in my family tradition, by you know, I am deficient to a certain job. And it became a pattern I was unconscious for quite a nice life. And I was going along, but I often felt I don't, I never felt I really fit in there was something Nash was always an effort, always an effort. And I to anyone looking in from the outside my life probably looked great. Like, if we all looked at each other, nobody knows what's what's going on behind. So I went continued on with my life. And then I had my first big blow, or, you know, I love the title of your podcast, grief to growth, because I thought about what was the grief and cancer wasn't the grief in my life, it was my life before cancer was the grief. And

even when I say that, it's very emotional, you know, it's sort of connecting in that something was that I can connect into that young child something that sort of was caught very early. And so there was a subtle sort of a sadness always going on behind that and but I went on my life. Lovely. And then I am I lived in Galway, went to college, studied marketing, then I moved to the capital on the east coast of Ireland in my early 20s got a job in a big bank, corporate life, my best friend there but my future husband, there are two people who are now you know, very soul people in my life like so relationships. And when I met my husband, it was like that was the first meeting of someone who ever truly saw me it was just we both always say it was just as such a soul was beautiful. Like we both saw light when we saw each other like you talked about the light with your daughter we both was only afterwards, we said it shouldn't be sensors off each other. We didn't really understand. You know, it was a 2021 year old you don't really understand what's going on. So we really connected we ended up getting married and then the the tragic thing was we ended up splitting up because he ended up being gay. And he came out as gay he had been bullied. So that sunk was built into I think that's where the grief really started to show itself in my life. And I think in his well we both know we came to to each other for that purpose to set us on this path that we would find ourselves again. And it's interesting in that journey we are now you know, so connected again on a very different level but on a soul All level and, and I describe it as we both say it's a lot that goes beyond time and space. And that's what it's always felt. We didn't know what you know, was a young person, you don't understand what to do with the so you assume you get married. So that, you know, that was what you know, that's the next steps. And I suppose we we were in that but it was beautiful, but it was awfully tragic as well, because to meet someone, the first person who really sees you and gets you on that level. And then to have it just torn from you about a few years later was just so I went on my own, I suppose part of into the darkness really, for a number of years, many people might not have seen it, but I, I buried everything I buried the pain. So I talked about the grief that you talk about that grief, you know, it was there from a young age and just exploded in the bush. And I suffered from everything from anxiety, addiction, depression, I was still functioning, still functioning in the world. Nobody knew this about me. I was a great actor. And I suppressed all of that, because I suppose the thing and I feel very strongly about anyone who's suffering is that, you know, even in that, as much as we want to be there for other people, most people I knew couldn't hold, you know, yourself, and you're in something very deep. So you know, it's not something we can get support. But it was very hard, I could see for people to be around me and that they just didn't know they did their best. It's not a criticism was just. But it was a very, very difficult time. So yeah, the years went by I am, I had gone to Greece to live there. Like ran away, basically, like Charlie Valentine. And the book, found a different source of life there for a year, but it was running away, I got into a relationship that was not healthy. I was teaching English there. But it was what I needed was survival mode, you know, we do what you need to do. And then I came back. And it was interesting, I sort of came back full circle. When I come back to Ireland, I got a job back in Galway, where I left when I was born, where I was born. And I ended up back here in 2005. And I worked in the university here, I worked with young people, which I love to work with teenagers, one of my greatest joys ever. And it's something I'd love to go back to in some form. But again, it was a life of a sort of tea that I was still in let's say that teams domesticated within the system sort of like that, like the like Elsa, the lion cub, you know, sort of there was something was like my spirit was calling to me that you know, and I didn't really know what was going on. So I was getting more and more burnt out, I was getting more sort of depressed. And I don't know, if I was depressed on and off depressed or anxious, very flash just felt very, very,

yeah, not not in a good place. And ultimately, my work kept me going for a number of years. But batch also started to feel quite empty. Because I had, I was meeting a lot of young people with a lot of hopes and dreams. And they wanted to do lots of different things. And I worked at a university and the message in Ireland, I don't know if it's the same in the States, it's so competitive to get into university. And it's not for everybody. But that was my role to talk to them. And I found myself feeling very disillusioned, like I could just see the light go out of their eyes going, my parents won't pay for me to do this, I have to do that. And so I just didn't feel comfortable talking that way to them. And so all of its ever all of this was building like to a crescendo and a number of things happened. I had a car accident a year before my diagnosis. And to me that was literally I was brought to a standstill, like just, I remember the level of anxiety and stress. So I'm just getting lots of little warning signs. And you know what I think life always does. I would say that to anyone you know, to pay attention to. Everything, everything is happening. For a reason I have I can say that 1,000% In my life, I have no doubt. I would have been careful saying that. I say it for me. I don't say it for anyone else. But I absolutely have no doubt like Wayne Dyer. I don't know if you ever heard of Dr. Wayne Dyer, the lovely passed away. I loved his writing. And he wrote a book I can see clearly now in his 70s. And I loved it because he talked about, you know, we never know, you know, he looked back at his time when he was at an orphanage when he was three or four. And he said, even then he was doing that work that the young children that were coming in, he was cheering them up and saying, Oh, it's great here. You don't have to worry about parents, we can do what we like. And even then, yeah, that outlook I just thought wow, you know, the training ground. He was in that and I see that in my own life as well. Everything was preparing me and it's always preparing us for our next step on our next stage and So everything that I had been through, was preparing me for when when cancer sort of arrived on my door to me. So I had that car accident. And just quickly, that was a year before I stopped for about a month I did a bit of a breakdown, I believe, I don't know what a breakdown was like, other than I couldn't function mentally was like this. Someone rang me there was a fizzing sound, I couldn't process things. I didn't understand that. But I got through it and straight back on the treadmill again, go go, go, go go. Because I didn't know what else to do.

You know, I sort of see like, we something happens to us, we go out to the system, and then we're patched up and we're expected to get back onto the treadmill again. So I did that was a lot of things that happened, I had another a very powerful experience with the healer, where even just before the car accident, I had a lot of the stress that I did know all of this suppression of yours was starting to bubbled to the surface. And it was like it was saying no, no, can't, you know, can't bury this any longer. You can't run through it any longer. And But see, I think what saved me or helped me going into the cancer experience was I had got into a very difficult relationship as well as someone who was a very a narcissist as the only way to describe it, but very challenging. And I really didn't know what was going on at the time. And I ended up someone recommended I see this healer, I went to Reiki a lot of things. And when I left his room, the next day, literally for a month, I had this tsunami of release of emotion every day, I just came on me and I didn't know what was happening and I to ring him. And he said your higher self, you've agreed you're ready to start releasing some of this, you don't need to understand what's going on. You just need to let this out of your body. It's you know, it's gonna kill you. And so that happened. And it was amazing. I said to him, but I can't stop it. It's literally have no control over it. And he said, Just ask that it happened when you're not working. You know that when you're on your own. And I did. And from that day on is only ever happened when I was on my own. It was amazing. There was a month of literally helping me clear some of the old trauma. So yeah, and then after that car accidents, yeah, went back to work. And then not surprisingly, 10 months later, I found a lump on my right breast and then I went to the GP and yeah, diagnosed with breast cancer. And I have to say I, everybody's experience is different. But after I got over the initial shock, you know, when you hear these words, like any words that are life changing like that, the strangest thing happened is actually I felt relief. Relief is the only way I can describe it. I just went, I can stop, I can stop. I just couldn't do. I sort of knew if if my life had continue in the way it was for much longer, you know, something else was going to happen. So my overwhelming feeling of relief. I know that that may not be the case for anyone else. But you know what it was a Brian as well. It's really interesting. For the first time in my life as my life made sense. I thought everything was just randomly What is all this happening to me? Why am I experiencing such pain? Why am I finding it difficult? Why am I feeling burned out? And it was basically I was being shown this is you're not living the way you you were meant to live, you know, we all come here. My sense is with a with a spirit and a soul that wants to express itself and shine brightly like your daughter and you know, some of us it takes longer you know, I I was like sort of suppressed for so so long. And I think there's a cost there's a cost to that suppression of the humans version whatever for that happens to you. And at some point, you know, if we go back even I often think pre Colbert and people say Oh, I'd love to be back the way it was that I go with it wasn't so wonderful where I was was more people around me and young people and people on medication and depression and anxiety and homeless and oh my god the problems so and to me they're they're a sign that this system this staying in these, the system is not working. This is not how we were designed to live so cancer for me I call it was like the call to return to the wild, you know, like the lion cub. This is you know, we're giving you time I got two years in 2016 where everything shut down. Like obviously through the treatment. I had to go through all the chemotherapy radiotherapy surgery, but I always felt safe I always felt held. I always felt this this this has to be for a reason. I never I don't know how to say it. I've no doubt from the moment it happened. I just knew something something added up and and how the greatest gift for me has been that in that silence. I went back to live in my own house. At that time I had moved in My mother, but I went back to my own house for a while. And I needed the quiet because I just couldn't process and be around people. And in that quiet where my mind shut down, my body shut down, something cracked open as the only way to describe it. And I connected with this beautiful, spacious, law alive in flourish, creation, source God, whatever this just beautiful piece came over my life. I had no idea what was what was next. I didn't. I knew, you know, but at the same time, I had never felt more peace and supported and loved and guided. And, and I think that's because everything I was going so fast, and my mind was so fast that I couldn't connect with that aspect of myself. So it had to be shut down for me for a long period, literally nearly two years. Because I did a lot of fatigue. I tried to go back to work, no, wasn't able to try it again. Nope. And I remember asking, and I'd say, Can I not go back? Because I was getting the answer. Nope. You're never going by, you know, I just think there is no going back ever isn't there, there's no going back. So that that was the start of something just and I'm only really beginning to fully appreciate it, you know, when you're going through something, and at the same time, it was very traumatic. So it was all going on together. You know, it wasn't all I was sitting there going, Oh, cancer is wonderful. It wasn't it was very challenging and very difficult. But something else happened. Long side, both were happening side by side, it's was all on the one, and so on today. Now even as I talk about more, I feel the gratitude for that, what I had to go through and either distance from now.

So I will be eternally grateful. So it's changed me in every way. That was the that was 2016. It's and after that, I suppose what I found the most difficult and I think many people definitely for cancer often say it's the transition, it's the period after because inish in the experience you are held in, in the sense of the system, and you're going through treatment and doctors was and then the first question was most people to me Oh, great. So you're you'll be ready to go back to work. I used to nerdy get these panic attacks for those here that kick back. Have you any idea of what I've been through, you know, going back into their old job maybe the way for someone else, it just wasn't for me. But I found it very challenging because I had to I was at a point where you have a choice you we always have a choice. And I and I know that that's what's your, you're going to choose to go back which I knew I couldn't. So I said no, I'm going to choose the unknown. And I have no idea where this leads. I have no idea I'm going to how am I going to make a living, I don't know anything, but I just No. So all I did was really surrender into that I asked for help. I had no sense of where this was going and grabbed the first thing that got me on the path. I've never written anything. So you know, that was not my life at all. But something about the voice wanting to come through. It's quite interesting, because I feel like when I went back, like I said at the beginning of marched, Born Free, I related to that child again. Now as in, I found that place in the again, that place that I disconnected from all my life and back there. And now I have a means of channeling this voice that I didn't as a young child, it was just it I couldn't, it was very overwhelming. So none of this was conscious. But straight after that period of deciding I'm taking a break, at least from work account for a career break, a friend that I hadn't seen in. And this is the power or I believe when we ask for help when we surrender into this unknown, you know, this leap of faith. I felt like I had to take and I just they asked and one day, a woman, a friend, a neighbor, a neighbor, but someone I hadn't seen in about 20 years I happen to bump into. And I told her a bit of my story. And she said you know there's a lady nearby an elderly lady running a course called the artists way to book by Julia Cameron. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's a book on exploring your spiritual approach to creativity and it's helped me it's for everyone. But my first reaction was that's not sure I'm not an artist. I can't do that. And she said, No, no, no, it's not about that. It's really about helping you get in touch with yourself. It will be a really nice small group. And you'll have time you know, you've time not to do this. So I did. And that was the first step on a new path that just I have been shown the step next step, the next step, the next step, the next step everyday but that was the very first because I went to that course, I met the most wonderful group of women that I was in. And we used to be in her meet in her house by the sea every week. And we worked through exercises, you do things like journaling and unconscious writing, you go to an art to stage, it's like you go on a date with yourself, and you sort of do something nice. So there's lots of different exercises to help you get in touch with that aspect. And it was she, that lady after about six months said to me, you know, you're talking a lot when we meet about how cancer has changed your life. And all you were learning and you know, all the good out of it, and the positive and, you know, you could really help people, have you thought of writing anything, and no one ever. And we had a coffee, and I came home. And obviously she was sent to me, as we're always center three people were always sent different messengers and guides, and I came home and I just need to get my laptop out, sat down on my laptop, and I don't know what came out. But basically, I sat there for six months. And the end, the end result is this book. But really what it started us was just a way of processing your what's going on here? What am I learning, but it came down. It literally came through me in chapters, if the only way to describe it, I just get a title. And I go, Okay, I have to write about that. So I might start. And

yeah, I wrote a draft of this book back in 2017, long before we entered into COVID. And what's quite interesting. Sorry, no, I don't know if you want to stop me and ask a question. Because I'm, I can just bring you maybe just bring you up to you when the book was published how it got to that stage. Okay. So I had a draft of that book, didn't know what to do never published a book never written a book by asked a lot of people found a self publishing company in Galway here, went to meet the lady who owns the company, and she's great. Yeah, you can write a book, would you think of writing fiction? Five, zero, like fiction. It's my life story, like part of my doing writing fiction. And I don't really understand what happened there. But I will I do. And I don't, I didn't definitely at the time. But it was obviously a timing thing. The book was not ready to be published, it was too soon. I literally just come through the experience. And it was down on paper. So I said, I don't know anything about writing fiction, but I have nothing else to do. So okay, I left her office, I drove home when I started hearing all these little voices in my head like characters. So I went and wrote wrote a book of fiction. And it's called the tapestry of life. And so I self published that first book. And I really needed to write that book, because the book ended up being about three generations of women. Living in Galway, I picked my hometown as the place and how their lives they come into each other's lives over a period of two weeks, and how they change each other. And it's sort of echoes the idea of the tapestry of life, we are all essential pieces of the tapestry that makes up you know, the universe and life. And we never know, you know, we all need each other who knows the next for that thread meets another thread. And, and so that was something really, and I suppose it taught me a lot. It taught me a lot about racing. It taught me a lot about publishing, it taught me a lot about the importance of community in my life, and who I surround myself with, which I've never been conscious of. So I'm very consciously surround myself now with people only who lift me up and are, you know, for my highest good of very, that's been a very big shift in my life. So that happened. And I launched that in 2019. And then I thought, Okay, I'll go back to this book. And I started back into editing ish, and writing to publishers all over the world. And then John Holmes, publishing in the UK offered me a contract. And then we went into lockdown. So I spent 2020, you know, the timing. I spent all of 2020 editing and finishing it. And it came to another level because gifts from the devastation the title, cancer was one of my devastations Bosh, the point being as we all experienced devastation, you've experienced station everyone in some form some tougher than others, some more than others. And then we all went into a collective devastation I believe with that lockdown, and, and a lot of the lessons I've said to so many people, I was very grateful. When we went into lockdown, it didn't change my life at all. I know for some people, it was quite a dramatic and traumatic time. But I virtually had been in my own quarantine or lockdown for 234 years. So you know, something in that. So that really helped me I suppose, build some of those lessons into the book and I believe that There is a reason why it's being launched now. And it wasn't launched two or three years ago, because I do think there's a lot of devastation in the world on many levels. So my hope is that yeah, it can. It can help anyone maybe who's, who's going through that in their own life.

Brian Smith  30:17  
Yes. Yeah, I think that, you know, you talked about you're coming into the world and being more open and being, you know, chatty and talking. And, you know, you've referenced a couple pieces of art and I love music and art, the way it kind of reflects life. So right, there's a song by a group called Earth, Wind and Fire love. That's the way of the world. And it talks about how we're born, pure child of gold, and then the world imposes itself on us. And I don't know if this is just in Western society, that's the only side I know of, but it's southern side of us, I know. But they say you have to be something else, you have to be someone else. And also reminds me of, there's an album by a group called Pink Floyd the wall. And the whole album is about, you know, this just poor kid, everybody's like, you have to be like this, you have to be like this. And he builds his wall around himself and I are here, you and your story. Now you have to adapt to this. And there I don't know if it's universal, because I just relate so much to your story. But I think other people maybe they just shut down and they're just unconscious of the fact that they're, they're not happy in this world. But it is it's it's there's a lot of unhappiness. So as you were talking about that, I was like, I was right there with you. I understand what you're saying. But we put on we put on a mask, and we go out and we get by and everybody assumes as long as you can function. As long as you're a cog in the wheel and you're doing your job, then everything's okay.

Announcer  31:46  
We'll get back to grief to growth and just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian is an author and a life coach? If you're grieving or know someone who is grieving his book, grief to growth is a best selling easy to read book that might help you or someone you know, people work with Brian as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at WWW dot grief degrowth.com www.gr IE F the number two growth.com or text growth grow T H 231996. If you'd like to support this podcast visit www.patreon.com/grief to growth www.patreon.com/grie F the number two g r o wth to make a financial contribution and now back to grief to growth

Celine O'Donovan  32:48  
Yeah, yeah, we are so much more than cogs in the wheel like you know that's that's that's that's it I really believe whatever is going on in the world it's it's it's pretty chaotic right now. I do believe it's part of us collectively returning to something very true in ourselves as a humanity not just individually because we cannot sustain and I think the big shot I don't know if you I was listening to some I listen to lots of different sort of teachers and spiritual people astrologers and everyone I you know, anything sort of metaphysical and about life. But you know, they talk about we're moving into the Age of Aquarius, and out of the Age of Pisces right now, you know, over the coming years, and the Age of Pisces was very much the age of single rule, very male dominated, authoritarian, you know, and the people looking up to one Aquarius is about each person stepping into their own sovereignty, their individuality, but being part of the whole, like, that's unity, that we still honor and respect everybody's unique expression and creativity. I think that's something that has been missing. We've been encouraged to compete. Well, I was all my life always compete, compete, compete. And I've joined what's really said, every so many things have saved me throughout, you know, and led me on my path. But in the last six months, I joined a course called a wonderful man. He's an Englishman living in Ireland, Mark Ashwood. And he is a spiritual seeker, our entrepreneur, and he's really about helping people bring their gifts to life in the world. And often, as he says, and I know what's very true, often people who are not maybe as caught out for the corporate world, find it hard to make a living and bring that gift into the world. So he runs a beautiful course and he has some scholarships honors as well. And it's really about helping you take that gift idea that you have in your heart or mind and bring it to the world and how to do that because he has all the technical skills in the business skills as well like years and years. And the confidentially sovereign, that would be the hope that we move into that sort of A. And it's, it's a group, I've never the big shift, I've noticed in these people as everybody, there is no competition, there's only love, it's a really loving community of everybody just wants to see each other shine. And I've noticed when you start to do that, you realize, Wow, I really benefits from that person as being the best they can and sharing their gifts with the world because I can benefit with that. And vice versa. You know, why? Why compete with that person and try and do better than them? I'm not them. There's nothing. That was the biggest, biggest thing I learned was like a moment trigger like, yeah, there is no one that there is no one who can offer what, what I can offer. And there's no one that can offer what that person cannot, like, we are so unique. And he always says to us, you know, the market isn't saturated, because you are not English. And that I think is lovely. It's like, there is space, we need everyone. We need everyone shining brightly, don't we? That's That's my vision. If I could, hopefully translate or encourage that in people. That's my vision of each of us shining our lives. I mean, what a world we live in. And we allowed each other to wish.

Brian Smith  36:16  
Yeah, absolutely. You talked about the Age of Aquarius. And I've heard that I've heard that since I was a child. I remember the fifth dimension that song called the Age of Aquarius. And I'm like, yes, yes, bring it on, you know, it's like, when are we going to get there already. But as I think about that, you know, our our, our individual journeys are microcosms of a thinker as a journey as mankind. So we go through similar things. And unfortunately, human beings, but reason for time, my podcast grief to growth, we tend to learn through pain. And you talked about it in your life, it's like our higher self is, it's nudging us, right? It's sending us these little things like the car accident, you know, like things that happened to us that the kind of, it's kind of blocking our path and trying to send us another way, but we just press through, we just keep going. And I see humanity right now. And I'm wondering, and I'm hoping that all the tragedy that we see going on all the turmoil is going to prompt us to a tipping point where we choose something different. And that's, that's what I hear. I think you're kind of you've kind of believed that also,

Celine O'Donovan  37:19  
I feel that and I think what it's bringing us back to this whole idea of sovereignty that I knew nothing about is that, you know, they always say there is no nice on a, you know, on a horse or someone coming to save us, this is all since humanity. So like you said, the micro cow Cosmo, I was thinking about that recently, you know, going, looking at, I'm back living my mother in the last two years now. And that's been quite a full circle healing, experience, and ongoing. Yeah, everything that's going on in the world, sometimes it feels like it's going on under this roof. And I'm sure it is under everybody's roof. Because we're all we're all another big part sorry, of this experience for me. And I think we're seeing it play out in the collective, but I definitely have personally is the release of trauma. So what's the big gift for me was coming back into my connection with who I really am and finding my creativity, connecting with my intuition, being in my body. And I think that's key. Everything I listened to tells me the way we experience and process our lives as human beings is meant to be in our body. But most of us have so much trauma, a lot of the time we're up here, and I wasn't up in my head, navigating life in this way, and so disconnected, disconnected from others. And I see it now I released I do a lot of work around that. And I think that is your magic, your magic tool almost more challenging, and depending on the level of trauma, but with the right support and the right practices. I'm doing it every day. Now I do is with the breathwork practice, and there's all you know, it's what do they say there are big traumas, but trauma can be just any emotion that was never processed fully through at any stage in your life. So the child wasn't heard or was shut down or, and they just stop. You know, often we act out of that trauma, don't we? Like years later, you could be 50 you're and you're still acting as a trauma when someone says something to you. So I think that's the power. The power I'm finding where I'm finding my power in my life is the more I'm releasing the trauma, the more I feel I'm able to come into my body, the more I really connect in and I feel that connection to the greater universe. God I can feel it like that lifeforce just powering through me, which I never did. And like creativity, all of those, they're all wrapped up together. And then when I think as humans, that's what we're meant to be. This is this is the real human. I wrote a chapter at the end of the book called A New Age, a new kind of human. And I think that is, if you want to call the other fifth dimension, the world where we are going to create this, that's, I've often said that to a hope it's good happen. People say that no, it is up to all. So in my life, I have to be that I have to be the person who's doing the work. Because that's not what's happening collectively, all this trauma, I really believe this is the shadow side of humanity being exposed. And it's horrendous. And most of the time, you just want to go, oh, no, I can't look at this. I can't do this. Like I did in my life. I did a lot of my life. Like, I can't look at the snow. It's too much. It's too painful, isn't it? Nobody tells you that his pain, or whatever pain I had is that I'm not saying I can always end but you can see it being stuck in you. If there isn't. It's just if you don't do some work and try to move this energy through, it's can kill you. But it can move and it can be yes. So painful, isn't it? I mean, I don't think there's another way I haven't found another way.

Brian Smith  40:58  
But more about what you mean by being in your body? Because I've heard that before. And I think some of our listeners, my listeners might have heard that before. So what does that mean? Talk about that a little bit?

Celine O'Donovan  41:07  
Yeah, I didn't really know what that meant. And what got me back into my body, okay, the biggest way I describe it is, so say, if you think of your attention, or awareness, I was mostly, I suppose it's the movement from Head to Heart. And I know that sounds very, what does that mean? It a very physical level, just by even coming into my body session, grounding at a very basic, just starting out, you know, grounding your feet into the floor, like feeling your physical body. So taking your attention from your head, and up there. And literally lots of practices, you know, people can do to bring you down into each level. So you can start to feel, I think, that's, it's really about feeling. And they always say our body is our body is really our GPS or our tool for navigating life. Because we're a spirit in the body, if that's what you understand, it's what I understand in my life. So this verse has chosen to be in this body and, you know, has to be in a body because we're on Earth. So how does it speak to me, other than really through what, you know, to me how I see the body now is it's like my antenna into my, into the universe, or source. So everything I need answers with, I find in my body, and it's all energy. So we think of everything in life as energy. And what I am very guided by now is okay, so I do the exercises to sort of could be breath work, it could be putting my feet on the ground going out into nature is incredibly grounding, really brings you back into your body. Breath is very powerful. Because breath is breath is what keeps us alive, you know we are so breath, that's our life force moving through. So I would have a lot of practices that helped me just focus on the breath, just so you can match, just focusing on the breath that's being in your body, because you're concentrating on the breath in your body. And as you do that, what normally happens if you're a normal human being, usually at some point, some pain will come up, and trauma will go, okay, don't like it in the body up again, up to my head, run around busy. And we go back into that stage, which is again, very disconnected. So doing what I call trauma work alongside that is really important. Because it's very difficult to be in your body, people this energy and energy is just energy stuck in the body. That's just what emotion is. So if we're not processing, and it's an ongoing, what would you say practice for me, but it's a lot easier now. Because I've cleared a lot. But I could go out today now after this and say I have an interaction with someone on the street or someone shouted at me. And I could shut down and go, Oh, my gosh, and run away and really get angry, or you know, stuff that down or I don't feel what that was, like, even later, that energy starts to get stuck. And it just starts there, then I might have another interaction and I bring that memory to the next level. And then I add to it, and I add to it, and we don't even know I didn't know. But my body was very heavy. I had lots of different what's the word? My body feels lighter now I feel very grounded, but I feel lighter. You know, that feeling of? I'm sure. Like when I was in deep grief after my marriage, and I mean, I was just like, like nothing bullsh it's like, yeah, that that being in the party I think is your key to navigating your life in a way that is right for you. Not in a way that someone else tells you because we if we look around the world now, like you said earlier no one in the systems or that song when they say about you know, wherever say molded or whatever, into something that maybe doesn't feel right for us. Then what happens is we're disconnected from our own power. So we trust that was the Age of Pisces. So then we look to someone to say okay, what Should I do? Because I've no, I see this in a lot of people I know right now they're so disconnected from themselves. If someone said to them, you know, stand on your head, and you know, you'd get over COVID or something like that they would probably do as you know, there's, there's this sort of, and I'm not blaming people, it's just this is what is, this is the type of, yeah, this Piscean age, the systems is totalitarian, sort of, you know, the authoritarian.

But one step, I found the whole last two years much easier, because I had sort of been coming back into residents, you know, they took residents that's listening to your energy. So if you said something to me, and I felt quite something in my body, so that's not okay. I need to trust that we have been trained to ignore that and go, Oh, no, okay, I have to accept it. He knows more than me. And this is about being your body, your body says no, that is not okay for you. Because we're each this is like being a sovereign, unique, individual person with your own connection to your source. And we're all just different expressions of our source, you know, but decided, that's how I see it that God decided to come down and play and in billions of different who's that the spiritual teacher Rhonda says, Every treat everyone you meet, like God and drag. And I love that because yeah, every single one of us, aren't we?

Brian Smith  46:21  
Yeah, you know, you're saying, but we, this whole thing is about things happening for a reason, I truly believe that. So this morning, I happened to be on my walk every morning. So I was on my walk, and YouTube video came up. And it was about this whole thing about different types of people and how this guy, his argument is that we're, most of us are fake. But most of most of us are fake people, we're not being our true selves. So he talked about like five different types of people. It's just what you were just saying, people that go to religion for their authority, or to the government, and they just do whatever they tell them to do. Or people who are still listening to their parents that might be adults, like we are, but our parents voice is still in our head, or people who it's all about whatever their peers think they do, whatever, whatever everybody around them, whatever is popular with them, then there are people who are basically like outside the system that just don't function well, because they just have given up on everything. And then he talked about a fifth type of person, which is what we're talking about is that autonomous person who has their own personal sovereignty, who says, Okay, I'm going to listen to other people, their opinions are interesting, their opinions are valuable, but they don't tell me what's right for me. And I'm hoping I'm seeing this more with the, with the next generation, I have a 25 year old daughter. So I see it more with their generation. Unfortunately, a lot of that comes from despair, because they look at the world and they say it's just not working. So, you know, YOLO was the big thing. Now you only live once, so we're just gonna go out and live our lives. Okay. I'm hopeful that they'll they'll learn to start taking some of that, that power back and, and your story is just so you know, it's about that. And I think our higher selves, I do want to ask you this question. Because, again, we're all it's all about things happened for a reason. So I interviewed a woman on my podcast not too long ago, and her daughter was in a devastating accident that left her brain damage and, you know, not functioning very well. And she said, I hate when people say everything happens for a reason. Just like I just I don't believe that, you know, I don't totally reject that. My feeling is more like yours. So my question to you is, when did you What did you come to this conclusion that everything happens for a reason?

Celine O'Donovan  48:33  
And like you said, it is a little I'm very conscious every time I say that, I say that. Always from my perspective, I can never I always make that clear to people I'm not just casually going around telling everybody who has been through some horrendous tragedy or what all happens for a reason. I don't mean that in a real you know, trivial and a light sort of way at all it was it I mean, is in a really serious serious way but the way it came to me How would I describe it I can't even describe say when it's very quickly because nothing had made sense in my life for so long. And the diagnosis made me think all of these things are connected Finally, I'm getting evidence that everything's connected because I felt like I was dying inside and I literally was to me cancer was creative energy because we are create this is this is so new to me as well. This idea of creativity I thought creativity was about you know people who are artists and careers that artists and the rest of us you know you just got on with your job. And but what I wanted understood from it is we are creative energy. That's what we come from. This is what all of the universities so we that can appear in many ways, but we have to express and so the idea that I was dying inside and then something happens to say yes you are dying inside look at we're showing you what's this wash wash wash is canceled. Then something growing inside you and I talked about being suppressed. So I sort of, I can just rubber wander in the car and take my hands off the steering wheel going, I don't know, I just know I have to let go. And I think there is something in the letting go. Not trying to figure out because you can figure these things out. Things like that. Something just let go with and I and I really believe that when I let go, something greater took over as all I can describe it. And it's sort of been rippling out in my life, since it's it's, and it's so gentle. And it's so what they call it an infinite unfolding. I can't even sometimes put words on, but I look back on a on a day or a period. And I suppose I just have to keep asking myself because I'll revert to my old habits. And something difficult happens. And I go okay, what if I was to look like, what am I just behaved like, this is happening for me? If I was to believe that even if I don't? What would what would I do differently? Or how would I you know, even try to just get my it's like they say you get a different perspective on a picture on the wall? What if I can just try for a moment? Even if I don't believe it, just try and look at this in a different way. Don't have to stay there. It's a very, isn't it? I don't know what the answer is. I mean, it's different for everyone. I've met people who've been through, I'm sure you have sometimes I've been through horrendous things and are still in it and very angry. And no, I'm not saying they shouldn't be but you know, and then I meet others who, you know, just blow my mind at how they've come through something so difficult. I sort of deemed as a divine timing in everyone's life. I like you talked about your daughter coming. And you know, some people come and they come and they shine brightly. For a short time. I've seen that with other people I mentioned my life, they just shone so brightly, like unbelievably so and then they were gone. And then others I feel it's taken me a long time to start shining my light. So I'm around here a bit longer. Because I wasn't shining for a long time. So, you know, I really do believe I chose this, like chose this path in this lifetime. I have no doubt I and I chose that there would be struggle. And I chose that. Because like you said, you know, we don't maybe maybe some people don't have to go through pain to grow but grief to growth, as you said, but I haven't met too many. I think anyone who's done any major growth. Because it's like this. There's a saying it's another writer, I think Pema children, she talks about the breaking of part, sometimes at the breaking apart, she talks about pain, and if we don't let it break us apart, we become brittle to life become hard we become, then there's nothing, you know, well, it nearly has to break as open. It's in the breaking open that we find something even more beautiful that maybe that I would say that that that experience was maybe the gift that was trying to give us as hard as it was they wanted to show us this beauty that they

I see. That's how I tried to look at it. Even in my own life, my father passed and I go he was very close to him. I mean, he was much older, and it was a natural death and everything was still painful. But it was something and what I discovered as a result of this test, you know that we never die, like my old, because I'm always I'm always talking him. He's always with me. And he's like even the other day, just to give you an example, I say it to people who are very skeptical, and I walk by the sea every day. And one day I was walking and he's always with me. And I said to him, I said dad just spawnable when you just do something really obvious that you're here, and I was walking and walking and then nothing and then eventually I was close back to my car and a bird just never swooped in, literally kept up close to my face and across to and it was right up the road where he used to walk and just shut up there. And then

Brian Smith  53:55  
what you know, the thing is I and I do happen to agree with you. I'm not dogmatic about it. And I can't prove it to anybody. It is a belief that everything happens for a reason. And you can look around the world. And you could say, well look what's happening. It's clearly random. And that's and I can't argue with that from a rational point of view. But like you, I've been like, well just try on the idea that everything happens for a reason and see how that how that works out for you and see if it makes sense to you. And and the older we get I think the more we look back in life, because it when it first happens to us was like, Well, clearly this is not for a reason. Or I hear people say I would never choose this, you know. And then as we get a little bit further down the road, we can say oh, well now I see how this connects to that. And I'm like, I love your analogy of the tapestry. And I heard an analogy with tapestry. It took it to like another level that like when you're living in this world. It's like you're looking at the backside of the tapestry. So when you look at the backside of a tapestry, it looks like just a mess of colors. It makes no sense whatsoever. But when we cross back over and we turn the tapestry over Are, we can see how everything is woven together and a pattern that makes sense. And your book, you know, I just I love when people sit down and I did this with a client, we're actually, I don't know if you ever write a book or not, but she just hired me. We did several sessions. She just told me her life. She's like, I'm gonna start at the beginning, I'm going to tell you my whole life story. And just her talking through her life story revealed to her how beautiful her life has been, even during all the times when she was poor. And you know, this happened and that happened. But how it tied into the next thing that came along.

Celine O'Donovan  55:36  
Exactly. Oh, that's so beautiful. Yeah, that even that I hadn't thought of it that way. But that process every time I think back now, and it's even such a joy, and I'm so grateful to even be able to talk about it here. Because it is that you go wow, it's amazing. Really. If I had was went to design my life, I would say that people, look what happened to you in the last few weeks. If you tried to plan that, do you think you could have done as good a job? Because, you know, often we think we know, you know when you say someone said to you something about but I would never have chosen this and you know, the you down here on earth probably wouldn't. Because you're limited 3d person as they call us with limited senses and consciousness? Of course you wouldn't you know, because the true to me the true way to relating to alive, it's not we have our was Einstein, this essay, I think was attributed to Einstein said, we actually say we have oh my god, the rational mind is a faithful servant. The intuitive mind is a sacred gift. And we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. And I and I that always that was the big shift for me, the mind is not where the answers are, your mind is the tool of the intuition, which we have been taught to believe is just some airy fairy, in your intuition is your truth. I mean, you know, if you go against your gut instinct, or your intuition I know anyways, I suffer greatly usually. Because we've not been with Dan, it's back to the same thing, we have not been encouraged to trust our own power. And that leads to a bigger question. Well, why? And to my mind is, well, if you've everybody in the plant on the planet, living according to their truth, how can you control this? And how can we don't need controlling but you know, that that's a whole different. And I think that's the world that that's the sort of world I want to live in, and the types of people and communities I'm in now where and I do believe we'll end up living in more sort of smaller communities again, and smaller sort of town councils and people coming together that the way we've been living, it's just a lot of these people are not good, I'm afraid. I'm very greedy, powerful, controlling people there are,

Brian Smith  57:54  
there are definitely people that want to control us some, some benevolent, some not so bullet benevolent, like, you know, our parents, our families, you know, when we start to shift, we start to get outside of the box that we were then they put us in there like what's what's going on with you? What's wrong with you? Why are you why are you doing this, you have talked about university, you know, here, there's a huge pressure on kids to go to college when they graduate from high school. And I hear a few people finally starting to push back and listen saying that's not for everybody, there's, there's a lot of great ways to make it to make a living, because we unfortunately, we do have to make a living so far in this world. But there's lots of great way to do that, that don't have to crush your soul. And you don't have to go into the corporate world. I couldn't make it in the corporate where I just couldn't, I couldn't conform. So I got out about 30 years ago. And I felt like at the time, it was kind of like a failure because I was like, here's where I want to be, but I can't conform enough to get there. So I've been doing my my own thing for a long time. And that's, that's me, right? That's, and that's kind of like you, you said, Okay, enough of this. Because I know so many people. And I look at them, and they're, they're miserable. They're making lots of money, but they're not living the life they want to live. And that's they're not getting to spend time with their children and their families. And I was like, I can't do that.

Celine O'Donovan  59:17  
Yeah. And it does take living. That's another side that you know, when you say it, a lot of people would say that to me, Oh, I can't do it. And I used to think that I have a mortgage like this, I bet. But the minute you make the choice, and I've seen this, I call it the breadcrumb trail you are shown every step of the way, which you are not given. You know, it would have been nice for me, after cancer, someone's that. I'm guaranteeing you in two years or whatever. This will happen. No, I didn't get any of that. I'm not saying I've reached any great level of success in terms of my old life. But in terms of me being fulfilled and living my truth, yes. And I still don't know where it's going, but I've been shown every step and I am Anything I remember reading something about the the next step is only ever little for you. So where you got to keep, that's why it's so important to stay present. That's another part. Another thing I've had to learn in my life is I create our creative energy. And our intention, and our action is what creates our life. So if I'm out there going, I wonder now what's gonna happen in five years, from probably not very much service more of the same. So me knowing that I'm showing the next step, I need to stay very much here. And, and writing taught me that because you got to stay in and she can't just jump out and go, I want the book published now. And who's going to do you know, you have to write it first. So you've got to really be in ish. And that's, that was a good lesson for me. So

Brian Smith  1:00:44  
we, you know, as you were saying, I was thinking about we do that we do that even to our kids, like, what do you want to be when you grew up? We asked that when they're five years old, and they'd have no idea what's available. And you know, and again, they graduate from college, you know, what do you my, my poor daughter, she's 25. And she just got her Master's, she's working. And I remember saying to her a few couple years ago, I'm like, stop worrying about where you're going to be in 10 years, and you go on a job interview, where do you want to be 10 years from now. And I said, you don't even know what opportunities are out there. So you know, just focus on the next step. And ironically, she she gets her master's degree, she gets this great job. And then she's on LinkedIn, just look for another job. And this job comes up she's never even heard about, she didn't know what it was. And it pays like 50%, more than she's making right now. And she just started that new job on Monday. And I was, so the thing is, like, we don't know what's available to us. I went into engineering, because I'm the kind of person I want to plan everything. And I want to know what the next step is going to be. And so I loved engineering, because it's math, right? So I know what's going to happen. And I've had to learn to just let go to take that next step and take that leap. And I ended up better doing that. I ended up going into sales. And then I ended up when I couldn't hack the corporate world, like, I'm just gonna do my own thing. I'm gonna start my own company. And I've been doing that for like 20 years, 20 years this year. And it's worked out great. But both my girls through school and my wife and I are, you know, to the point, we can probably retire fairly soon. And now I'm doing this, I you know, when Shayna passed away six and a half years ago, no clue I would be doing this. But just started doing some volunteer work. And a friend of mine said to take a life coaching course, I was like, I don't know why you would say that. But I did. And now I'm doing this and life coaching. And, and this is like, I feel like this is what I'm here to do. So I'm kinda like you. I'm 60. So I'm just now starting to do this. But I feel like this is what I'm what I'm here to do. And I think it's, I think my our higher selves, God, universe, whatever you want to call it. Gently, and sometimes not so gently guides us into what we're supposed to be doing.

Celine O'Donovan  1:02:54  
For sure, for sure. You know, when you said that again, that's amazing. And like for anyone who's going well, I don't believe that which is absolutely fine. This is about being sovereign, as we said. So this is this is our each our own journey. So but at the same time, I haven't met anyone who's held decided to hold that perspective in life and regressions. And I can say for sure, I haven't. So it's definitely all I would say that I've said it in the book. If you're struggling and everything you're doing is just not working out for you. Why not just try it? Just just give it a go? What have you got to lose? If life is so hard for you right now. Life was hard for me for years, it really felt this, oh, my God. But I was holding on so tight. And it was what I needed to do. I'm sure I could have learned things much faster. But I didn't. And I held on I realized how strong I am. I've got a lot of stamina, because I would stood, you know, kept coming. Another thing not to think no, I'm here. And I generally didn't show us that's why if I set it to people that watch and that takes a certain amount of energy. So when you think of the life force are created to try to think of it now of our creative, lifeforce energy, what could you be doing with that? If you weren't using us to sort of just, you know, endeavor to keep this image up all the time? And I believe there's a breaking point. I think there's a breaking point in the world right and accurately, and I think that is this breaking of the human spirit. There is a point for humanity. It's just God universe, whatever it is going no, this thing this, this is not what you're here to do. And this is not who you are. You're not slaves or robots. You are magical creatures here to do amazing things, aren't we? And it's happening.

Brian Smith  1:04:44  
Yeah, I believe it's our collective consciousness. I believe that we have it we have an individual consciousness and there's a collective consciousness and that's, that's what everything is. And it's all part of that. So you talked about as creating we are co creators of the world that we live in. So when we look outside in the world and we don't like what we see. That's, that's a reflection of our inner torment, inner turmoil that's going on. And, you know, hopefully will, and I, hopefully will get to a tipping point where enough people believe like you, and I do. And I believe that's what we're here for. I believe we're here to, to encourage that. So I love that you stepping into your, into your role. And, you know, it's funny, I was talking with someone on interview and and we're saying we're talking about free will and choice. And I jokingly said, I don't have a choice. And she goes, Well, you do? And I'm like, Well, I do. And I don't it's like, because it's my nature. So I might have a choice, but I really don't. And I think it's the same thing with you. It's like your, your higher self is saying, okay, Celine, this is it's time. It's time for you. Yeah.

Celine O'Donovan  1:05:45  
And it's the higher choice. I mean, yes. You know, and it's funny, I would never have used those words, but dislikes. I don't know if you could have but I and I know that's why there's a timing around my book. And I know we have to be ready. And often you think you're ready before you're ready. Like I used to think why didn't the book come out three years ago. And I remember I was working with a spiritual healer. At the time of chiropractor, beautiful woman, she called what she called her supper. She is a spiritual midwife. And I love that term. And I worked with her throughout cancer treatment. And she helped me basically birthed this new version of me into the world, like I couldn't have done it without her. And that's how I got the title from the book. Because every time we work together at the end of the session, she'd say, to me, let's, we'll ask that you integrate the learnings of this experience and that you carry, you'll need to get some, that was just beautiful. I just thought, yeah, that's what you want to do, whatever it's been as difficult and traumatic, that we learn, we integrated, we leave behind the trauma and all the other aspects of it, and we just carry the gifts. And we can share that with the world that because you can't share it. If you're stuck. I was stuck in trauma for years, you know, then then something comes alive. And it's like this, this is the gift, like what you're doing for the world now is like, you can't push a value on that. It's amazing.

Brian Smith  1:07:04  
You know, it's funny, because right before you, you were taught, you mentioned the Einstein quote, I was looking through the notes that you'd given me and I just read that. And then I was just reading the quote that you would read from your printer chiropractor, let's ask that you carry, right. That's what you carry only the gifts of the devastation. And I say something similar to people I'm working with, I'm like, don't waste the pain, you know, you've gone through the pain, you can hold on to the pain, you can hold on to the trauma. Or you can turn that in, even if you don't believe it was a gift. And I don't believe my daughter passing away was a gift. So we use this language. People misunderstand it, sometimes. It doesn't mean that that was a gift, but it means I can turn that into something else. And that's my choice. So you can choose to believe everything happens for a reason, which I do. Or you can choose, you can make it into a reason you can you can make that your reason for something else. It can inspire you to do something else. And yeah, we have this tendency to want to go back to what we were before. Like you said, people, when are you going to get back to work, Celine? When you know, when are we going to get back to the way things were before COVID? That's wasting the pain? You know, that's that's not

Celine O'Donovan  1:08:13  
Yeah. Yeah, that's wasting the pain. Exactly. And, you know, and I even in saying that title I wrestled with for a while because I knew putting it out there people might go, Oh, my God, like a bit devastation and get together. And I'm not saying cancer was a gift. But there have been other gifts that have come as a result of us. And the gift was in finding who I am and getting in touch with you. No, I wouldn't change one moment. But that's just my experience. I wouldn't want to go through whatever again. But you know, all you can do i That's how I felt I was very careful in how I wrote what I said, here's all I'm doing here is sharing a perspective. I'm sharing experience, I'm sharing a story. It has changed me for the better it has made my life worth living. It has given me something beyond my wildest dreams. And we can do that for any one person who reads it. That's what I wish but I'm not saying this is the way for everyone. And there's a lot of work and a to like you said it's not it's not. I developed and it's at the back end, we're going to develop it more. One of the later chapters is about CO creating your life and I developed because I trained as a life coach as well, but I haven't really got into using it. But I might work. I like to work maybe more as a guide or maybe with people who've been through cancer or maybe some other traumas. I'm not sure yes. But what are the tools that I am on the road with you to the wheel of life and coaching? Well, I developed this it's called Inside Out living and it's basically a wheel ananassa map sort of 10 aspects of your life that you do have, let's say control or power over is maybe a better word. And you basically saw everything from boundaries to or at the mall written down. There are so many others your boundaries, your values, your intuition, your creativity, your belief Eat gratitude, emotionally, how you process your emotions, your self care. So there's a lot of things we do have even just to take it into more practical terms. And I talked through it, and I get people to score yourself now. And obviously, like an ugly little probably look, you know, maybe not look too good as a whole we'll, and then start working towards because they were all aspects of my life I had to work on it wasn't like this big aha moment, I found God and everything's wonderful. It wasn't that like, it was I was still in the, I had just taken a leap over a cliff. And I was like, oh, what's going on? So you have to don't you you have to, I have to develop a lot of practices and tools. And I still do and do a lot of work to sort of keep processing the emotion, keep, you know, conscious of my beliefs. Now come back to old patterns. So there are things as well, even if you don't want to take that bigger picture, whatever that view of life is happening for me. Okay, but do you want to find a way of living life that maybe is a little bit easier for you to, but gives you some sense of participation, that you're not just a spectator? You know, the way they often say like, do you want to be a spectator in your own life? Or do you want to get in the driving seat? I mean, I prefer to be in the driving seat.

Brian Smith  1:11:16  
Yeah, I do want to, we're running out of time. But I want to just finish this point up, because I think it's really, really important. This idea that when we say that everything happens for a reason can lead to what's called I call spiritual bypassing. And I'm hearing that term more and more, and I'm glad to hear people saying that, because it can be used to minimize the trauma to minimize the pain to escape. And a friend of mine who had a near death experience and went through a lot of trauma. She just wrote something on Facebook yesterday, that was really beautiful about, we need to pull back from that too. We don't we don't mean the pain is not the pain isn't real. We don't mean there's not real devastation in the world. Yeah. And even someone like you or I that might believe this, when we're going through it, we're probably not gonna sit there and go, Yeah, I'm really glad that I have cancer. I'm really glad that my my loved one passed away in the car accident. I know, this is for my higher good. So I'm not going to I'm not gonna, we're not

Celine O'Donovan  1:12:11  
real. And I make that very clear in the book. Absolutely not. That's why I put the word devastation in because it's not, it's to try and not diminish the horrendous, you know, devastations people go through, you know, I think all we're trying to say, or all I'm trying to say is, here's a perspective, and here's someone who is, this is what helped me come through this, it still was so difficult to like, share the things I did going through it. So it wasn't like buying it was a gift not at all. But as a result of going through it and feeling the pain and doing that work and the hard stuff, you know, nothing worse than nothing, we don't say nothing worse as that. I don't know if you've noticed it, but there's nothing harder than sitting with the pain even now, there's days when something comes up. And we all do with distract could be just some an old uncomfortable emotions. And I literally have to sometimes just haul myself over and sit down. And when you're going over to you feel this. And I worked with someone and I do it all the time of the lots of different teachers and they literally would just guide you in through your breath. And just feel it. And the big ones are just one thing on that because I think I used to fear and I think a lot of people do is that they go into their pain, they'll get lost in it and they'll never come out and they will die. And I used to feel that it isn't the case but you have to the bit what's really helped me as someone said it to me is let go of the story. Because the minute you start to feed it and you go into the story it starts to get bigger again you know it's not moving it's it's very difficult to often not to do that. But this this practice it was I was doing she helps you observe and just feel its energy just see its energy it wants to leave you it wants to leave you it doesn't want you to be like you know in this pain anymore. It literally it's the emotion and the energy from an experience that was devastating but like you said that your pain was just adult that your pain you don't waste it always the pain. Yeah, yeah. And let it let it Yeah.

Brian Smith  1:14:10  
Yeah. And I had had someone say to me once I'm scared if I start crying, I'll never stop. And I'm like, believe me, you will. There's there's something about the body. But as you said that, that experience that pain, it wants to be processed. And I think crying is a beautiful thing. I've been working. I've worked with people they're like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm crying. I'm like, I'm not sorry that you're crying. This is a you need to you need to let that go through you. That's that's that's part of the process. And every time you cry, you feel better. You know, it's like salutely You always feel better after you cry. So why not?

Celine O'Donovan  1:14:43  
Yeah, I just the deputy thing that has helped me is not to go back into the story as in, say, I cry and I feel something and then I could talk to someone on the phone. And I go oh my god, I was I had all that pain go but it was to do with and I go back into the story and I create the energy again. That was One thing I didn't know, and I have to because it's very tempting when you're feeling is, I don't want to feel this. So I'm going to blame someone. And it's the project out. So that but that's a very powerful practice for anyone who's trying to process but I know there's lots of ways you can do it. But, and we need help. I needed a lot of help. I'm not here saying any of this that I did on my own I had such I luckily enough, I had no issue with asking for help. I just kept asking people for help all the time, support support, we need each other. You know, we really do, don't we?

Brian Smith  1:15:32  
Yeah, we do. We're not meant to do this alone. We are connected. And we are designed to be connected. And we don't do well alone. Celine, I'm an I hate to end this, but I have to try to cut it keep it to an hour because people have short attention spans, frankly. It's been really, really great meeting you. I want to give the name of your book again, please tell people and tell people where they can find it.

Celine O'Donovan  1:15:59  
Sure, I'll just show that picture. But they can see it's gifts from the devastation. Wash cancer taught me about life. And and just people on cyber website, saline or donovan.com. I also have a link tree if people are familiar with going into that link recently. No dhanabalan, all my links are on that because I have a YouTube channel as well as social media. Yeah. So yeah, be nice to connect on. It's on YouTube, as well as your interview on it. But I recorded a note I'm in a narration racism recorded an audiobook version of the book separate to the publisher, because it felt something very, it was another layer of processing, I have to say or of deepening the lesson because it was bad. It was very interesting. I narration is home. And I use using my voice. And my story always goes back to my voice. So I've nominated and recorded it's being mastered at the moment. So that's available as well for people who made up you know, a lot of people sometimes don't have the time or want to read and then like maybe to walk and listen, so but all of those are on my website or link tree or they can connect on YouTube as well. But if you go to my link tree and get all the links, it's probably the easiest.

Brian Smith  1:17:10  
You know, I actually held up the book. The cover remind me of Ukraine. That is Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:17:16  
Is that a sunflower? Yes. Yeah, very much. Yeah. Wow.

Celine O'Donovan  1:17:24  
Well, sunflower, yeah. Yeah. It's one thing about the sunflowers to see as it grows towards the light. It's like space, the light and I thought that's nice to remember and like,

Brian Smith  1:17:33  
I love that cover. Well, again, so good. So good to meet you. So enjoy the rest of your day and we'll talk soon.

Celine O'Donovan  1:17:41  
You too. Thank you so much for watching.

Brian Smith  1:17:45  
Don't forget to like, hit that big red subscribe button and click the notify Bell. Thanks for being here.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai