Forgiving The Unforgivable- Geoff Thompson

Brian Smith  0:00  
Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed we've been planted, and having been planted would grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes, open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith.

Hey, I wanted to give you a little bit of a warning before we start the episode. First, we deal with a subject that's sensitive. And that's sexual abuse, especially in children. So if that is an issue for you, you might want to skip this one. But I will say it's an extremely uplifting episode. Secondly, I want to say that Jeff Thompson is a very sensitive, brilliant man. And he moves effortlessly from subject to subject. So you might have a little bit of trouble understanding some of the things he's speaking about. But I encourage you to stick with it. I find myself when I stretch myself, like talking to people like Jeff, it really helps me to grow. And I learned so much from talking to him. So I encourage you to stick with it. It is a great episode. And without further ado, we're gonna get right into it.

Geoff Thompson  1:33  
This is your intro was the most welcome I've ever read. Thank you. It was really gentle. And it was just lovely. He said if you feel like rambling, please ramble. It was. I've never I've never had never read an introduction that was so comforting and welcoming. So I've just wanted to mention at the beginning, it was really lovely. Yeah, yeah. It's quite tragic. It's difficult, isn't it? I would say there's treasure in the ruins. You know, there's something to learn from that. But something to get from that. My life is massively enhanced because of all the things I went through.

Brian Smith  2:13  
Everybody. This is Brian back with another episode of grief to growth. And today I've got with me, man, his name is Jeff Thompson. Jeff has a fascinating tale like a lot of us do a life that's been difficult, but he's found a way to overcome. He was sexually abused at the tender age of 11 by a trusted and beloved teacher. By the time he was 30, he was unconsciously displacing his rage into violence, and the sexual self harm and long bout to develop a debilitating depression, after failing to find a solution as to his mania and all the conventional places, is set off on a quest to find answers for himself, about abuse, about the aftermath of abuse, about the true meaning of forgiveness, and its metaphysical power, and how it's possible to heal no matter how deep or how old the wound, he assures us that there's treasure in the ruins. And there can be profit and sorrow and suffering suffering. So as people that are acquainted with my program know, that's something that we believe here at grief to growth, Jeff has gone on to become a BAFTA award winning screenwriter. It's also one of the world's highest ranked eighth and black belt in martial arts, Black Belt magazine, USA, named to the most influential martial artists in the world since Bruce Lee. He's authored close to 50 books. He's appeared on the Sunday Times bestseller list several times. As I said, he's won a BAFTA Award. He's a fascinating and phenomenal man. So I want to thank Jeff for being here today.

Geoff Thompson  3:39  
Thank you, Brian. And thanks for inviting me. And I'm very grateful.

Brian Smith  3:43  
I'm really, as I said, looking forward to having this conversation. I know that your life started out with some difficulties. So tell me about your your background.

Geoff Thompson  3:52  
Yeah, I was. I was one of these kids that was going to trip the light, fantastic. You know, I just have this aspiration, that this felt that anything was possible. And my path was interrupted at the age of 11. I was groomed and sexually assaulted by a beloved teacher, as you said.

I was the star pupil in the class.

And, you know, I was gonna say I trusted him, but that didn't really even come into it. I just idolized this guy. And one night, we were all called back. We were all kind of we all kind of camped over at the boys club to fix mats and you know, it was going to be exciting. We could sleep on the trampoline. So there's all this great stuff gonna go on. We're gonna have a whole day of this.

And as it turned out, when I got there, there was none of the other kids. There was lots of other people around, but none of the other kids were there. I ended up staying overnight. And during that night, I woke up in the middle of the night with the with hands on me and being physically sexually abused. And it was terrifying because I was turned away from this person. So I didn't, you know, basically was just like a hand like a disembodied hand. And I was literally terrified. I was so terrified. You know, I can't, I can't hardly remember much of it. Because I know there was some sort of abandonment was something can be abandoned myself and left. But when I woke up the next morning, I woke up. Interestingly, I was able to pull this guy's hand off me, and it kept coming back and pull it off me and it kept coming back. And from that moment onwards, it felt like I was trying to run away from that hand, that disembodied hand that disembodied, evil, disembodied, demon, divided person for the rest of my life. So anything I didn't understand anything, couldn't control put me into a state of fear. The next day, I was bereft, you know, but the next morning I actually woke up. And when I woke up this man's lips, were touching more. And that's how I woke up, I woke up with his face in mind, and I knew he was pretending to be sleep. I said to him, you know, once I was up and about I said, he knew I wasn't right. And he said, you know, he asked him was i Okay? And I told him that somebody abused me in the night. And he laughed and said, he's probably a dream. Like, I'd find the story state like, that was something I would fantasize at the age of 11. That was a boy. I've hardly kissed a girl. I didn't know anything about that kind of thing. When I broke down, I was literally sobbing, he, he became very afraid. And then said to me, Oh, you shouldn't tell your parents you know, like, and, you know, I don't know what's happened. But you know, we shouldn't tell them that there was no way I was going to tell them anyway, I was terrified of being of terrified if anything, you know, this whole thing about if there's no, you know, there's no smoke without fire. So part of the grooming process is knowing the gaslighting is that you believe it's your fault. And you don't tell anybody because you'll think they'll think it's your fault. And I'll tell you the most the thing that got me most Brian, the thing that destroyed me most, the thing that ruined me, to paraphrase. To paraphrase the Old Testament, the thing that ruined me was the dissonance, the confusion, this cognitive dissonance, this sense of I don't understand what's happened. I don't know why it's happened. I don't know how it could have happened, because this guy is my idol. But I realized many years later that for him, because he was a disturbed mind. For him. It was he thought he was just initiating a relationship. He thought I was special and he was special and people wouldn't understand. That was his lie. That was his his own demon. So I didn't tell anybody, I've kept it to myself, because I was too afraid to share it. What What was what happened to me at the age of 11, this parasite that entered me, because he left a parasite in me like a semi autonomous thought form could have been removed quite quickly, with with with a healthy dose of love, and with some quick justice, but because I was too afraid to speak about it, it's kind of cocooned itself in me and grew on my fear grew, or my anxiety grew and my dissonance to the, to the point where I'd be with a girl in a field, you know, when I was 12, or 13, and I'd be lying in the grass and I, and I'd be kissing and her face would distort and become a male face. I mean, I'm not I don't mean like it was an imagination, it would literally become a male face with with stubble, and I'd have to recall away terrified. So it created this planted this parasite in me that grew over time, when I finally did tell somebody was too late. It was a bit too late, really. I've told it's never too late. But I've told I've told somebody who didn't understand and who was just as terrified by my revelation as I was terrified, even happening to me. And this person suggested, I wondered whether I'd lead them on. And that created more dissonance and I don't this isn't a judgement, Brian because I'm aware that people literally don't understand. And they and you know where I come from, we were terrified of middle class professionals, who didn't challenge middle class professionals who are terrified of shame. Don't bring shame to the door shame. Shame was an assassin's bullet. People were more terrified of shame than anything else. So there's no judgement this is just how people reacted and I spoke about it it was like a dropped a bomb in somebody's Sunday kitchen. And people running around trying to pick up the pieces. So that made me feel even worse because the 14 It'd be my fault. Because it was suggested, but of course, it created more confusion because I was thinking, I mean, I wrote a play about it called fragile the character and it's a fictionalized play, but it's based on what happened and the characters saying, What do you mean didn't lead them on? I was 11. I was 11. I was 11. I was 11. I was 11 years old. What do you mean? Did I lead you? I don't think that was what the character was saying. He's stuck in this loop of confusion. So it led me into that this was a martial arts teacher. So I became very, very afraid of teachers, very afraid of middle of class people. That's what this person represented. You represented knowledge you represented elevated knowledge, which to me was the middle of classes. So I became very afraid of any situation I couldn't control. So unconsciously, very unconsciously. I was I was a pretty boy, I look like a girl. I was mistaken often for a girl. So I, I covered myself and warpaint I got rid of all my prettiness or my cauliflower ears, broken nose, all this hands are developed the ability to kill in 30 languages. And I built an arm around myself, I've got tattoos all over my body to like, like a some kind of war, pain. And this huge back and this ability in it basically

built a career page like a fort around us how to stop people from get I didn't realize this, until I spoke to God through the pen. It's a lovely line in first lines that were revealed to Muhammad on the mountain was read. And he said, I can't read he says, God will teach you through the pen. Everything was written down. So God speaks to me through the pen. So when I started to write about my dissonance, my confusion, which obviously just kept feeding this parasite, I was able to release it. I was able to learn through the writing, I was able to speak to my highest soul, through the nib of the pen, very powerful. I ended up writing I've written. I've written 50 books. I've written 15 films, I've written stage plays, I've written musicals. God speaks to me through the parents, and he's helped me through the pain. Because he said to me, yeah, label your dissonance and your confusion or blame lay out to me. I want to hear it. I know you blame your mom. I know you blame your dad. No, no, you blame the teacher. And the No, you blame the policeman that didn't didn't really do anything about it. When I spoke to him many years later. I know you blame society. I know you blame. I know you blame me. I know you blame God. You think I abandoned you? We said and I said yet I do think you abandoned me so didn't abandon you. But did you abandon your muscle car? Crikey, I did. I did abandon myself. And I've been abandoned in myself ever since I was almost like a lost glove on a gatepost that we said, Put all your put all your complaints down and write them down. And let me answer them. And he was answering them as I was, as I was writing them. And I realized how protected I've been, I realized that this, this incident when I was 11, led me on a deep, deep path of learning. My life has been so rich, and so fortunate and so blessed. Because I was in so much pain, and suffering with depression. I was frightened. You know, like measuring the climbing that manga, but I was frightened to go up. I was frightened to go down. I was frightened to stay where at some points I was frightened to live. And that fear. That fear I realized later was the only legitimate fear. And that's the fear of God, or the fear of being separated from our source. So this fear led me into a search for meaning. To paraphrase Viktor Frankl, I started to look for understanding I couldn't get it for the doctor because the doctor wanted to give me an answer in a in a in a brown bottle with pills. That wasn't my answer. I'd be lying in bed as a young married man with my wife next to me, it's four in the morning, I'm cold with sweat, and it's going to be a long day. I'm terrified. Because I don't know there's no one giving me answers. The doctors aren't giving me the answers. My wife is afraid of me. Because I'm following around the house like a lost puppy because I'm so afraid. I can't protect my children. There's nobody can help me. So it forces me It forces me to find the only knowledge that's that's of any use to me at all, which is from the inside. So I start to find this place of righteous anger where I just go I can't live like this. I refuse to live like this. I have a life to fulfill. I'm not I can't live like this. The moment I've found this anger to turn into the fear, to turn into the depression to turn into the confusion, the man word I turned into it embraced it through instead of running away from it. Seen as the harbinger of doom I'd turned into and said, Okay, you know, you've been battering me for as long as I can remember, what do you want to say come in, as I sit down. I think Viktor Frankl would call it paradoxical intention, are turned into the very things I was afraid of. And it turned out, it's a messenger of hope. The moment I turned into it, an idea popped into my consciousness and fell down like a coin falling through water. And it said, draw a pyramid, it was implicit, draw a pyramid, write down all your fears on the pyramid and confront your fears one at a time. That was the beginning of my journey. And that led me to this deep study of physical, psychological, physiological, sociological, metaphysical growth. And I found the answers inside, which were often mirrored by the stuff outside, I drew a pyramid and started to confront all of the things I was afraid of. And I realized I wasn't, you know, wasn't really confronting and overcoming fears, what I was doing was I was finding little clumps of terror. Recognizing that within those clumps of terror was a spark of light, a spark of consciousness. And I was releasing it, and releasing it. And every time I released a fear, every time I overcame the fear or release that spark of consciousness and my consciousness expanded, I was able to see a little bit more was able to understand a little bit more, had a little bit more courage. The ultimate fear in my pyramid was a fear of violent confrontation to become a bouncer in an attempt to overcome that. Which led me down the wrong path for a while. You know, that lovely saying, you know, the California Dragon, come the dragon Nietzsche. You know, I started to become the bully, I started to become violent. And that was a terrible path. But it was also a good path. Because it you know, what was it I think Blake said, the road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom, you know, really did it lead me down a path where I was more estranged from God. And again, that, that facilitated me to turn in because again, I found myself in a place where I was completely lost and started to try and find it, but still central again, that has been my path and my communication my prayer to God or to the universe or to the highest self, to ya, to Allah, whatever you want to call it sits there was through the pens been such a blessing for me. That's why I've written this book. 99 reasons to forgive because I learned about forgiveness as a metaphysical force. And I'd felt his power. I felt its presence in the room. And as I didn't know how to articulate it to people, people thought I'd gotten socks and sandals, I think I've become a, you know, a preacher, like, you know, like, I'd lost my courage in that I was finding a soft answer for for the hard problem of consciousness. I wasn't a fan, I'd found this attribute of God, this metaphysical power. So in my meditation in my parents who look, I'm trying to talk to people about forgiveness, and I understand it, but I can't articulate it, please, would you guide me. Because I, I wanted this knowledge in order to share which which we know is the secret to perpetual motion. We bring knowledge down in order to share, there's an abundance. So I said, I'd like to understand it. And this book just again, just dropped into my consciousness. And it just wrote itself. It's a beautiful book. And I can tell you, it's beautiful. And I can tell you, it's powerful. And I can tell you all will have healing qualities, because it didn't come from me, came through me and I know that because most of the stuff that I didn't know, and it didn't just come on its own it came with, you know, can we study to go and do. I was led to 110 hours of lecture from a Jewish rabbi, but the tunya, about forgiveness and nearly all of it was about repentance, the ability to repent or to repair or to return or to find refuge. And it showed me that whilst it wasn't possible to forgive somebody in the sense of pardoning them, unless somebody has contritely remorse, you can't pardon them. You know, even even the judiciary can't pardon them. They have to find contrite remorse, but we can give them over to, you know, the power of reciprocity. We can, we can we can even forgive ourselves. People say the hardest thing is to forgive yourself. Well, I'd say it's impossible to forgive yourself. There's a higher power that forgives us, but we only forgive this See if we are contract with your mouse ourselves if we stand in front of our errors, and convert those errors to light. So that has been my path and it's led me down all what did the iris say? led me around lots of corners.

Brian Smith  20:17  
So, um, wow, thank you for sharing that I really, really appreciate your, your being so, so vulnerable and to share the you know, what you've what you've been through. And people, I think struggle with the concept of forgiveness, and a lot of times and you touched on forgiving ourselves. So when we feel like we've been wronged, we feel like we want to hold on to that, that anger, that righteous anger. So why is it important for people to forgive? Why? Why is forgiveness so powerful?

Geoff Thompson  20:48  
Because Because when we hold a grudge, when we hold resentment, it binds us to the very nature of our resentment. And that that nature, that parasite, that bind in feed, just like a feed into soy virus resemble to you. There would be a kind of an ethereal link between those that would feed off each other. So you've I think you've abused me, and you think I've and I feel as though I've been abused, and then the corporeal, well, that's very true. But there's a greater energy outside that that's also abused you that's working through you. So you give me the virus of abuse, you've got the virus of abuse, you give it to me, and I attack you for giving me the virus, but the virus feeds off anger, it feeds off, pain feeds off, drama and confusion. So by being angry at you by by, by holding a grudge or being resentful, I've got this, this, this parasite allows you to think that I've got this power, I'm gonna hold it over you, I'm gonna hold resentment, all I'm doing is I'm binding myself to I'm entangled. I'm literally entangled to the level the web where we're not differentiated from each other. Even if, even if we're separated by distance, even if we're separated by death, the brother abused me. I didn't see him for 30 years, and he was still abusing them. Because he was in my head. And he was taking over my autonomy taking over my hands. And I felt, I felt powerful holding on to that anger, you know, and I felt powerful holding on to that. But actually, all it did was feed the virus in him and feed the virus in me. Once I recognized that I hadn't got the power, because when I finally did meet him, and I told him, I forgave him. And I had the power to be physically violent with him or wanted to or develop that skill. And I realized that were divinely fed what was in me, and I forgave him and let him go. And I felt very proud of myself and I felt an expansion. But as he walked away, I realized it was a, it was a quiet conceit. I didn't have the power to pardon him, I only had the power to let him go, give him over. And that's what I did. And I'd give him over properly. The moment I gave him over and I was no longer distracted by what this man has done to me, I suddenly realize what I've done to other people, I suddenly realized how unkind I've been in my own life, in lots of ways, everything from Gossip right the way through to physical violence. Now I'd got a lot of I got a lot of debts to pay myself. And every one of those debts, every one of those anchors, everyone knows. Small violences are committed on as the people who have didn't just have an effect on them had an effect on me and having an effect on the whole world. We drop a pebble anywhere in the pool, the ripples are met everywhere. So we're all we're all adding to our to the world's karmic Faberg every time. We are unkind, but we're also adding to it we're also chipping away at it every time we are kind. So I realized afterwards that I didn't need to concern myself too much with what other people were doing. I needed to concern myself by the fact that I had been unkind to lots of people. And I started to atone that, so every time I was in kind, it divided me divided me again. So my consciousness was locked in all of my energy was locked in all of these little murders. Committed everything from luck is everything from gossip to shaming people or you know, just generally being unkind or being physical, all the all the different things we do. So, again, I went through this process of looking at everything good doing by writing about it. That was my my confession, rewriting. I looked at it, I took full responsibility for it. I didn't blame anybody for it. It happened on my shift. And I recognized it every time I was able to stand in front of the chair of what I've done to other people, I was able to convert that into light or convert it into consciousness. So my massive exponential expansion has come because I've contracted my karmic debt in order to expand consciousness. And every time I expanded consciousness, I was able to contract my car I'm so I'm not really concerned with what this politician is doing or what that greedy Bank is doing or that you know, or that fundamental terrorist is doing. I'm not really concerned with that I'm looking for the corrupt politician in me, I'm looking for the greedy banker in me, I'm looking for the violent fundamentalist in me, and I didn't have to go far below the surface to find them. Recognize that the world was a mirror, I was I was basically trying to fix the world at the level of the screen, needed to come back to the projector needed to change my own concepts, my own precepts, my own cognitions, my own beliefs. And that's hard, that's in Islam, they call that the greater jihad. Everybody wants to go out and change the world, but nobody wants to change their own waist motion, you know, everybody wants to take on the magical, but they can't even manage them and down, I was one of them people, then I saw the power in that so I can, I can really, you know, I can, I can, if I can get my energy back from all of these places where I've lent out all of these places that have been mortgaged, and all the in kindnesses and all of the negative beliefs I've got, if I can gather all energy back, I can use that powerful energy to really examine reality and to see what it is to see the truth, which is what Christ wanted to talk about. This is what Muhammad wanted to talk about, which is what I do in the Pandav, when in the Vedas wants to talk about all of those parables and metaphors, they're just trying to say, This is what the world really is. We haven't got time to examine it. And we haven't got the energy because our energy and our time is lent out to the 10,000th thing. I gathered my energy in and I just made my life a full time study a full time prayer. And that was harder than any physical violence I have faced because you come in, you know, I guess it's a process of what Jung would call individuation. You're bringing all this off from the from the unconscious, you know, the dragon or the or the sun worm. And you're, you're accessing your own consciousness or you're accessing your own attractive forces, you know, the philosopher's egg we're at we're accessing that, that those tinctures of wisdom and expanding. And that's why I like to talk on podcasts and what I like to write books because I don't really know what I know. Until I talk about it until I write it down. So I'm, there's a lovely again, at the first lines that were ever revealed to Muhammad were to read and he said, I can't read he said, right. God speaks to you through the pen. And that's what he's saying when you you know that lovely, same everyone that reads, The Bible writes the Bible. Everybody that reads the Koran writes the Koran, everyone that reads the Gita writes the Gita, everybody that sits and writes, is, is is reading when you write your read, so when I'm writing, I'm reading stuff I've never, I've never heard before 99 reasons is an example. Didn't know that stuff. But it's been very painful. Brian, as you know, I think it was Escalus said that those who learned so far, because you're constantly bumping into things that you've got to let go of, you're constantly bumping into six floors on this spinning planet, that you have to start to negotiate and start to understand them. And it gets better because you know, the more conscious you are, the less you suffer. Because there are less rules, but going through that the Fire and Thorns of that to get to that kind of Heaven is very difficult. But I'm exhilarated by it. So I'm saying to the people out there who are listening, I know that you're suffering, I understand that. But you know, I've I've had that suffering, I've had my my five my long dark nights of the soul. I'm telling you that there is treasure there. It isn't a metaphor, the literally treasure there is consciousness, in your suffering. And when you turn into the software, instead of trying to cover it with alcohol, cover it with, you know, drugs, legal or otherwise, where the when you start when you stop trying to cover it with projection. When you start turning into it and go, Okay, this is in me, this is living in me, and you start to lose your board call, let's call it absorbing 99% in fear when you absorb it. That three dimensional monster that's ruining your life at the moment will turn into a two dimensional cartoon and then it will pop and you will just have an expansion of consciousness because it contains consciousness. It contains a lot. But if we don't change it, if we don't convert it, then everything we have everything got everything. Everything after the age of 11 Brian in my life came through the filter of fear. Every decision I made came through the filter of fear. Everything I did was was was filtered by that one fear and until I got rid of that perception and expanded, it was always going to be the same. So my job was not just to change perceptions, that's that's a big thing. Where I'm living now is not a change of locations. I'm live on a farm in Stratford, not a change of location is to change your perception. But I'm talking about going beyond perception, going beyond color going beyond denomination, but going beyond religion, going beyond perception. So that the Rumi said it was, we said there was a field beyond right action and wrong action. Let me meet you there. But I'm talking about going beyond all that, going beyond denotation.

But the Buddha talked about the fact that when somebody asked him to explain his state, he said, I've been freed by consciousness from Dino tension. I've gone beyond the labels. And beyond the labels, is this, this isthmus, this middle place between heaven and earth? This is this is the place that we can start to see reality. But to get there, to get there, we need energy, we need fuel. And if our fuels locked up into the, into the drama into the suffering into the wound into the house into the need for witness revenge, that's a lot of energy. How much energy do we use? Do we waste watching cats do stupid things on the internet? And when do we most people do a doctorate in time, just watching rubbish on the television? And I'm saying Why don't you get all that energy back and put your time into deep learning and wreck it and see who you are? See what you've really got the people that are suffering the most out there. Now those who are listening to this, they've got the most potential, with all that suffering, or that abuse, all of it contains. Light contains consciousness and the people that you hold the resentment to, they have something of yours. This is what the rabbi's say if you see somebody that's harmed, you chase after them, serve them because they have something of yours, you need it back. And you have something because there's you've they've got your autonomy are climbing inside you and taken over your autonomy every time you feel that rage, but you've got but you've also got their parasite, give them that parasite back and take. Take your autonomy back. That's what that's what this book is about. It's not about letting somebody off universe settles or it's only the carbs This is about reframing the word forgiveness, it's about reframing it. It's about a new D notation. It's saying sang it's about giving over the English dictionary says that forgiveness is to let go of the anger to let go of the fear to let go the self blame. It doesn't say to let somebody off it says nothing about Pardon. Pardon is not the job of the human. Even if it comes to a human vehicle, it's not the job of the human so job of a reciprocal universe. That is impeccable and settled all it sounded calves. That's that's one thing I'm certain of. But I don't expect people to believe me, I don't want them to believe me, I'm Christine won't make no difference. I've got to find that true for themselves. But to find that certainty of themselves, and that's what Gurdjieff would call the work going inside. Finding this unification back inside our own body. Most people are this Britain split divided. Got demons in that's where the word demon comes from. It comes from the word divide, they divided against themselves. But this is about unification of the three levels of soul or just to you know, the different bodies that the food body, the breath body, the mind body is the intellect, the conscious, the body of conscious will. It's about unifying ourselves and being aligned with ourselves. And if people want to know whether they're unified, it's not difficult. Can you stop yourself from gossiping? If you can't, you're not unified? Have you got control of your own body weight? If you can't you have you're not unified? Can you make yourself sit down and study? Can you be kind? Do you understand the physics laws? Do you understand that everything you think everything you say everything you do? goes out into the world? As a spirit. It goes out into the world as a spirit and as your name on it, and it works. It's an apostle, is it an apostle for hate? Or is it an apostle for goodness? So this is these are all things that I've just want to encourage people to explore? Because it's their map that access to truth is equitably available to everybody. We talk about the wealth divide in the world but that truth is equitably available to everybody. The people that can get to it close quickest Probably the people that suffering the most, not just the victims, also the perpetrators. You know, when somebody said to me, how could when the guy that abused me, ended up killing himself and somebody says, How did you feel? I said, massive compassion. He said, why? And I said, because he was abused to he was being abused by the very parasite that was abusing me. doesn't make it right. You know, this guy would still have to, you know, we'd still love to have his day in court or, you know, he's good time in prison. It still happens on his shift. But you know, there is a greater force. Eckhart Tolle would call it the world pain body. But there is a dark force that works through people. And it likes you to think you've got power over other people, it likely to think that you're punishing them by holding on to it, but all you're doing is feeding the virus. But this is about finding an antibody that tracks down that virus, and that bacteria and dissolves it with love, or with consciousness, with awareness, wherever you want to call it. It's It's like taking a penicillin. No, they say, Don't you know, the pub? You know, you don't need to understand what's in a penicillin. Penicillin. Don't worry, the disease will understand, okay. You don't need to understand what forgiveness is, the devil will understand exactly what it is. The parasite in you will understand what it is. That's why there were certain books you read certain books are, you've got certain books that are binary, which you go, it's black and white, it's yes and no, we understand it, we know what it means, or the books are quantum, or esoteric, and you don't really understand it, but the soul reads it like a barcode, and anything negative and you understand exactly what it is. This stuff's available to everybody right now, and it's equitably available. You don't even have to pick up a book. You know, Muhammad accessed it, in a cave, outside Mecca, or zunar access to in the middle of a battlefield, Christ accessed it in the Garden of Gethsemane. Now, it's your doesn't have to come through massive education, this is about going in and just going I want to understand, help me to understand, and consciousness will hear you and you know, if you take one step towards it, it will take 10 steps towards you. So the people that are suffering, I know where you are, because I've been I have desperately suffered. But there is treasure in that and there's profit there if you can turn into it.

Brian Smith  37:37  
So how do you feel? Because you mentioned a couple of times, you know, you've had this rich life and there's been profit in it and other people look outside for instant. Wow, you've you've been through a lot. Do you feel like the pain that we go through? Is it is it planned? Is that part of our human experience that we go through the suffering?

Geoff Thompson  37:56  
I think, from my own experience of it, we're living in a karmic world, everything, everything we all do. We all pay for it, everybody's responsible for everything. If it's like the cells in your body, if I stub my toe, I'm going to feel that from my toe right up to the my scalp. Every cell in my body is going to feel that. And it's no good to scalp saying, Well, I didn't have nothing to do with it. Why are you giving me the pain. That's how the world works karmically. So, causation or cause and effect. Well, the law of equal and opposite return says that whatever you think and say and do is going to add to the karmic fat book. So wherever you do whatever's going on in the world now, or the terrible bad stuff, we're all responsible for it. Maybe even if even if it's over several lifetimes, you know, generations and generations, everybody is responsible for everything, but also for the good we if we start to if we start to get the the spray gun of have good actions, we can start to chip away at that we can put kindness into the world, we can put the spirit of kindness into the world. So this isn't something everybody wants to hear. But everybody is responsible for everything. Everybody, everything everybody does adds to it. You might say, Well, I only put like a grain of salt in the in the well, you know, every day so that the fact that the water is undrinkable isn't my fault. But one if everybody puts a grain of salt into the well, eventually it's just going to be undrinkable. So whether it's a venial sin, a small sin or whether it's a mortal sin, he all adds to the overall karmic debt. And we're all responsible for it. I'm responsible for you. I'm responsible for what happens in your life, even if it feels like it's desperate. Universally. If you look at like England's web or the you know, this connected this idea of the connected universe. I recognize from my own life and from my own spiritual visions that everything goes to affect everything and everybody and that frightened me. Because I knew that But I knew that, you know, every time I access sexual pornography I was I was contributing to the abuse. Every time I was violent, I was contributing to the violence in the world. And become I was unkind, I was contributing to the unkindness. And you know what, what starts happening is this more kindness here with the butterfly effect can be a terrorist attack over there. Maybe not the whole terrorist attack, but all adds to it. So I can actively stop that just by understanding the law. When you understand the law of causation, you you automatically start thinking not only am I frightened to add to that negativity, and become part of that, I'm excited by the fact that I can actually put goodness into the world knowing that it will be an apostle, for me and for everybody else, and that's going to return to me as well. So if I'm sat in my house, this is the level I work at, and the car runs into the back of my park car outside, I automatically look to myself for the source of error. Now, I don't go to the insurance company and say, Listen, don't worry about it. It wasn't her fault. It's a metaphysical thing. I don't do that. Because we're still working in the world. And we're still working with the normal laws. But automatically, I go into myself and think I know I'm out of balance. I'll access my highest self, have built a bridge to this, I know where it is. And I'll say, could you please guide me? I know afforded that abundance, but not quite sure why. And they'll help me to locate that. And then I'll redress that balance and bring myself back to the center column. The My job is to, I think, good, you have called it keeping the atmosphere within its atmosphere, keeping myself in the center, and monitoring what goes on, although think, although, say, although do so everybody's responsible for everything. Again, I wouldn't expect anybody to believe that but it doesn't take you don't have to go very deep below the surface to start seeing how obvious that is. But it's quite terrifying for people to look at it. Because when they look at it, they realize that it's true. And it it can bring a lot of added software because we suddenly got I didn't know that. But you know, I mean, honestly, please, just just look at just just look at how people kill other people on the internet just by trolling them. We know this. We all know this. We know that when somebody trolls that people kill themselves. So we know that unkindness concur, and yet people still do it. People still murder their friends, outside Costa with a coffee. In Judaism, they go into the minutia. It's a very didactic book of modality, the Torah has got this a blueprint of the universe where they go into the, into the minutia, they say that when you gossip about somebody, you murder them, because you're assassinating character. So it's this sort of spiritual level. When you shame somebody, you're drawing blood, because you're you're drawing blood from the body from the vital organs up to the fact that excite this, they talk about this idea that everything we do has an effect. And when you realize that you start to walk through your life, like you're walking on thin ice, you're very careful because you know what harm you can do. So I don't allow negative thoughts into my mind. And I don't allow myself to say unkind things. I love everything that breathes Rome. That's my mantra. That's how I live. It doesn't mean that people don't do things wrong. But it doesn't mean that I don't get upset. But it means that I recognize it. Anything that arrives at my door is my karma. It's down to me, nothing can happen in this universe without a cause. Just the fact that this the cause and the effect are separated by distance by person, maybe even by generation doesn't mean it hasn't got a cause. Now why that's unfathomable. So you don't need to go there. But what you can do is you can say, Well, if that's the case, I'm going to start working the law of causation. And I'm going to be kind, and considerate, and give in to everybody on me to everybody. And I'm going to study this myself. I'm going to take no notice of what Jeff Thompson said, but I'm going to find out for himself. Because how many people hear the word God? Three letters, and suddenly go Oh, yeah, God? No, it's religion. And religion is responsible for all wars on That's it. That's the end of mustard. That stops you from accessing the Torah. It stops you from accessing the Old Testament, the New Testament to stop you from accessing the Koran stops you from accessing. All of the all of the exegesis of those books it stops you from accessing Kabbalah stops you from accessing the Zohar, which is the explanation of the exploration of the Torah. It stops you from accessing this bank of knowledge. It stops you from accessing the Bhagavad Gita, which stops you from accessing the Mahabharata, which stops you from accessing, you know the Srimad Bhagavatam. It stops you from accessing the 505 some verses of the Vedas, massive, massive knowledge, all stopped by the House ghost of one word. And I'm saying to people don't be don't be scared off by a word. You moment you start going there meant you'd go through the revealed Bible, the reveal Bible is like, you know, the world is 4000 years old. And, you know, there's yes and no and good and bad. And as dark and light. That's, that's the reveal Bible. And he's got lots of horoscopes that scare people off unless they're deadly serious, and it should scare them off. Because it's a vast energy. And if you're not ready for it, it will blow you like a like a like a light bulb, like 1000 volts going through 100 watt bulb. So when you go into the Hidden Bible, it starts to become quantum, it's no longer binary. So it goes in and says, This is Brian, or this is Jeff, this is where he is. This is what this is his position. This is his ability to learn. This is his commitment. This is his Dharma, this is his karma. And you go into there, and there will be a message within the quantum Bible, that is just for you that nobody else can access. You might read the Bible, or you might be the Zohar, which is one of the exegesis of the Old Testament, you might read 24 books, and pick up 70 pages of notes. And they may all think disparate, and they're not connected. But when you reduce them, you know by going over the notes and making notes the notes it will reduce to one concept nucleus just for Brian just VTF so powerful, but you own access that if you're scared off by the first house ghost that comes along, believe me people have been killing each other way before religion, way before religion. So I don't take yes for an answer. I don't you know, I want to know myself. I want to understand myself. So someone says to me, oh, yeah, you know, I'm not going to read the Koran because Muhammad was a warmonger. I said, if you read the Koran, no. I said, Why don't you read it for yourself? You know, why didn't you read Karen Armstrong's book on on now on Muhammad. And see what a beautiful powerful advocate this man was, were a brave courageous man he was and go beyond the binary and go into the quantum you look at the Koran and it's man. It's there's some of the poetry at the end is so beautiful. And it's so exacting. It's literally looks you in the face and says, Listen, we've given you every difficulty, we've given you one easy, every time you brought us the same, we've converted it to light, we've girded your back, you know, what have you done with everything we've given you, when you die, there's going to be a room with two queues. And the longest queue is going to be for excuse makers, who not be an excuse maker. I had loved it. I loved it. The the universe stopped my life.

My wife didn't feel very good. She went to bed for two days, I just read full time until I finished the Koran, everything in my life, suspended itself so I could complete it. That book landed, landed in my house. That's a gift because I want to learn. I don't want somebody else's version of what what the what the Quran means or what the Torah means. I want to understand how Viktor Frankl was able to get through our switch, not even on the page of the Torah. The Old Testament, right now he only taken off him, this boy said to him, we don't want you to read the Torah anymore, we want you to be the Torah, the metaphysical power that he experienced. So live in the Torah, who live in the word of who live in the logos, living the purpose is awesome. He's wrote a book called Man's Search for Meaning, which is all about this. And he's developed a system called logotherapy, which is the concept of finding purpose. That's that's the whole idea of my book. My book is just a piece of the jigsaw. There's lots of good books out there. It's a piece of the jigsaw that's missing, because everybody wants to talk about forgiveness. And the whole discussion even from the intellectuals is always about, is it okay to forgive somebody? And it's always presuming that forgiveness means to pardon. It doesn't mean to pardon. But this is saying let's give it a new denotation doesn't mean pardon means give it over. Why? Well, there's 10 tracks in you that are going to explain why you should give over, get your life back, get your energy back, you're going to need that energy to break through the stratosphere of perception into this into the deep as they call it in what was the thing that was with June the book June when he talks about going into the deep, you know, going into nothingness going into the dark matter. You know, we need to get to that place we need to break through, per se Action to breakthrough perception, we need energy to get an issue, we need to collect all the energy back in from all the places it's mortgaged out and stolen. From all the little vampires that are stealing our energy, we can do that we can start that today.

Brian Smith  50:14  
Well, it's clear that you have brought your own energy back, I mean, and then you have become so productive, in terms of the books and the plays and everything that you've written and what you're putting out into the world. So it's, you're a great example of how you can take that energy that that person had taken from you, and that bite that bond that they create with you. And when you let that go, it just frees you up to be who you are.

Geoff Thompson  50:43  
It's exactly what it is. Yeah, but they they still part of your autonomy. They actually the parasite lands on on the causal body. Causal body is called in Christianity, they call it the body of conscious Well, that's where we actually create causation in the world. So when we think and say and do things, we create causation, so there's no be a cause. And there'll be an effect. What this parasite does, it sits on the causal body. And it affects what we think concern do. Because everything's filtered through it. It's like, it's like a, it's like the film in our projector. So it takes over our causation, we think it's us doing it, because when this parasite rises, the thought when the pain body rises, you think it's you thinking, and it thinks it's you. That's the problem with it. So we don't know it's not us. But we do find ourselves saying, Well, I know on Zoom, kind of, don't know what came over me. I wasn't myself, I was out of character that's not like me, was just a moment of madness. It wasn't it was a moment of possession. If we engage in negative thought, that the Old Testament says that if you engage in negative thought the devil is present. Absolutely. The semi autonomous thought form, and it is present. And if you act on that, if you if you if you imagine it provokes, then you're coupled with it. Right? And then you give it a scent, and then there's passion, and then there's action. Certainly this semi autonomous thought form as incarnated. Yeah. And for for a short time, or for a long time become Yeah, acted in the world, and left you to pick up the shitstorm that's left. That's like the disreputable doctor, Mr. Hyde and the reputable, reputable Mr. Hyde, picking up the bill for the different disreputable Dr. Jekyll. So we've constantly got that going on in his all the time because we don't recognize that these thoughts aren't our thoughts, that these actions aren't our actions, but they do happen in our shift. So it's starting, it's starting to recognize that every time we engage a thought, That's not kind, incarnates us, and acts through us. And then we have to pick up the bed it basically feeds off that negative energy. So the parasite feeds off drama. It's like Eckhart Tolle talks about the pain body feeds off pain, just like a virus in the field, feed off your blood. It's not personal, even though it feels very personal. It's a parasitical thought form that climbs inside people. So you might do you might be unkind to me, and I might blame you, and then we get into an argument about it. And that pain, that thought form is being fed back and forth between me and you. But it's not, it's not the lowest in both of us, it's not from both of us, is from somewhere else. So I don't attack you, because you've given me a virus, I get rid of the virus from my body. And then I've created an immunity around me to stop me from coming in again, it's no good to be printing new because I got the virus from you. You've just got the virus from somewhere else. So I can stop it by getting the virus out of me with the antibody of a higher level of energy. And that would be consciousness or compassion or love. And that's something we have to find that's something that we have to work for. So we have to recognize that. You know, that unkindness that violence isn't part of our nature. It's just working through our nature, and it's working through our nature because we're ignorant of it. Nobody really wants to talk about it. Because if you start talking about that kind of thing, people think you've you've become conspiratorial. And that's what these viruses love. You know, they they only work because they're kind of they're covert the moment they're the moment we're aware of them. They can't work anymore. They need they work through they work through provocation through Coplin. There we go. Yeah, you know, he did say that about me. And then suddenly you're thinking about I can't believe he was so unkind to me. And then suddenly you're thinking about then you're talking about it. And then you're acting on it, and suddenly you're fed it. If you get a chance if anybody's out there to read Eckhart Tolle. his book, The Power of Now is basically a book of this basically, probably the best book in the world at the moment for this precise technique. It's about recognizing negative thought forms. And he's got a technique about overcoming them. That is basically his book is basically a book on exorcism is exercise in negative thought forms. Again, it's a difficult subject to talk about because it's sensitive and most people are asleep to it. But because they're asleep to it, it just uses this like a pantry. Like if like a free buffet, uses as like a plaything like marionettes for me. I've had it, I felt it, I lift it. And I was able to see it and remove it, not just remove it. That's not that's not the most important thing. For me, the important thing for me is to recognize it can change lives. And I want to convert that light. There's all of this anger, sadness, suffering, or this depression, or this fear of that's in me, I am full of potential light, full of it. I just need to find a way to convert it. A good way to start will be to get a carts book, because it goes straight to it. Go straight to it.

Brian Smith  56:11  
So you know, as we're having this conversation, I can hear people thinking, Okay, well, are these literal viruses? Or are is this imagery? metaphorical? How would you explain that?

Geoff Thompson  56:23  
Israel? Yes, well, you'll hear it whispering, you know, again, if you go into the esoteric box, it explains it. If you go into the field that the back of your house and a tick gets on your leg, it could give you Lyme disease. That's real, isn't it? Yes. And we don't, we don't have that lavish meal. Because, you know, we've got the evidence of it. But this these are the parasites are very real. Yeah, they're absolutely real. That they they think they present like they're an enemy, but they're not really an enemy that, you know, we're in this when we're in this world of causation. And there are natural energies that we can work with. I go into the gym, the weights and the gravity aren't my enemy. The weights and the gravity are there to help me build a physique. For these negative energies are important. In Islam, they call them God's master swordsman, come to show us how to perfect our art. It's understanding them, it's understanding what they are, and understanding that you can hear them. And you can obviously see them through people. But the moment we hear them or see them, we deny it. Because you know, because people worry about going mad if they start thinking about that kind of thing. So um, we would say, you know, whether you whether you think it's real, or whether you think it's just a thought form, it doesn't really matter. It's still it still takes over your autonomy, right? You don't have to go too deep too quickly. But you could start with our carts book, which goes because he's basically this is basically what he's teaching. He's just using his bit gentler than I am. He's using words like pain, body, semi autonomous thought form. And he likens it to different things. But he's talking about the same thing. It's a very real force he talks about in his book, he talks about the fact that he was working with a woman. And he managed to get this thought form out of her. And he said, I felt it lever. And I felt it in the room. And he said, and I went to a cafe afterwards. And she was great. She was it was over. They went to a coffee afterwards. And he said, and I felt it in the room with me. He said I realized there was a world pain body. So this pain body left this woman was in the room. Is it a farting floating around? He said, I felt it approached me looking for a frequency. You said divided by an angry or if I've if any of those frequencies, it prevented me and occupied me. He said I was it was it didn't find that frequency because I was centered, he said, but certainly a guy in the corner, just kicked off suddenly. And that's called the police to get him out. So he said the fame body, the pain body found a like frequency, and then to them. So if you want to think of it just as a thought form, that's enough, a thought form is a semi autonomous being. We've seen people I've seen people kill themselves because of the wrong perception. I've seen people create magnificent realities, because of the right perception. I've seen people do the same, you know, creating destroyed because their perceptions aren't balanced. So perceptions, create worlds, they're very, very powerful, because if we act through them, so it doesn't just necessarily matter what you think about it only that it's real, in the sense that it's real. It affects it climbs in and the deeper you go into it. The more you the more and more you read about it. The more you study about it, the more you understand what's happening to most people every single day. So most people don't realize that their thoughts are not their own thoughts. They think they're their thoughts. But for me, I sit in an apartment so I sit to the center, and I observe thoughts all around me. Like being I've watched them approach my mind door. And some of them will engage if they're going to be productive, and they're going to help and I'll go into, like a covenant was on. And some of them are neutral, and some of them are dangerous. So I don't I don't entertain my entertain when I didn't understand myself. I entertained negative thoughts, and I battered hundreds of people, I was in hundreds of fights. I was in 1000s, of violent situations, literally 1000s I was, I was a magnet for it. I said to my wife once, isn't our city violent. Everywhere I go, there's violence. As you said, Jeff, there's a common denominator everywhere you go. And that's what working as a bouncer taught me. You know, I was creating monsters with my perceptions. Forgetting that I created them. Then I was developing tools and tactics and techniques to defeat the very monsters I was created and forgotten. When I realized that I'd created, I'd created enemies, I'd created infrastructure, or created a world of violence, just with perception. When I realized that, I started to educate myself and change my perceptions, ultimately, to go beyond perception that I could sit in this center, column this arc, and observe and go do I want to engage that no, then I don't engage with thought forms live in a separate frequency or separate data density. If we engage them, of course, they become our thoughts, we think them. And we think the thoughts are worse, and there are thoughts, but we can sit in silence and stillness. And just watch thought, we can watch them float around, we can watch them approach, just like a band from the nightclub door. That's what the door taught me. I worked as a band surface and most metaphysical experience of my life. Because I was basically learning how to defend my mind or to protect my autonomy to protect my causal body. And that taught me to be firm, it taught me to, not people that taught me It taught me. I learned to ciders, you know, like miracles, I could look down a queue of people. And I could tell you, that the guy 10, down, down the queue is going to start a fight in an hour's time, I can tell when I go down the queue, and I say you won't be able to come in tonight. I'm really sorry. No. So why I said because you can kick off in about an hour. So I'm, I'm throwing him out before he even gets him for something he hasn't even done yet. But I know he's going to do it. Because that's because because because my ex, my expanded consciousness allows me to see that. So I learned so much, but mostly about defending my own mind, or recognizing that all of these people were like, metaphors for thought forms. And I was the one that was deciding whether to let them in or not. And if I can, if I can do that in a nightclub door, then I can do it. Because it's the same thing. I'm just defending my own mind door. So I determine what comes in what sits on my consciousness. What x is my what, what takes off on my autonomy. Now I determine what does that. But in order to do that, to make that work. Again, like I said, we need energy, energy, we're not going to do it on the normal energy, because our energy is spent and lent out in so many places, is bled on a daily basis. By the 10,000 things, you know, I said people spend their energy and it's plugged in lots of different places, we need to gather all that back. So we can produce something like a book. That's my negative thought forms, converted into light. If you read that book, it's a stage play that would convert into light. This is my first attempt at it. This was my first book. I wrote this in a factory toilet when I was working as a floor sweeper. And that book went on to become this book, a real book. And then it later went on to become this book. Bigger book, which went on to become the film, a stage play. Spin come on to be 15 films. The last film I did based on one story in this was had had the lead actor was Orlando Bloom. It was the most critically acclaimed film he's ever done. That all came from the factory toilet, because I've gathered my energy back from my fears, and started to confront them. When later one of my films won a BAFTA. So that's like a British Oscar. And you think, well, it's just a trophy. That's no good, but it's not a trophy as a key. I went and talked to loads of kids in prison. And they said, Jeff Thompson has come in to talk to the prisoners who's Jeff Thompson when he won a BAFTA bring him in, yeah, bring him in. Alright, so I say to these kids in prison, you're in here for murder you mainly for drug dealing. You're here for whatever you're here for. I said you're really in because of perception, perceptions brought you here and perception can get you out. When I went to one prison, they said to me, this is the most in. This is the most impregnable prison in Britain. Nobody can get in. Nobody can get out. There's 15 doors to get to the center of the prison. It's impossible to get in, it's impossible to get out. I took my rafter with me, every door opened every door, let me in and every door, let me back out again, that is a key. That's a metaphysical tool. That came from a film I wrote about my brother dying from alcohol, because my brother's perception was that he needed alcohol. And alcohol possessed him, and he died from it. And I was distraught, and in tremendous pain and in tremendous anger. And I wrote about that and converted into light into consciousness, which won a BAFTA. And that BAFTA said, You've got me now. I'm a key, I want you to go to places and use this key. Well, I was able to, I was able to bring my suffering, to light to expose it to light, and it became a lot. When I went and talked to people in prison. I knew they felt that moment, because it was true within me, it was a certainty. So

yeah, so there's so much to learn. I mean, it's very exciting. There's so much to learn. And I would just, I would just encourage people, just, if they're struggling with the concept of this, if it seems big, just start small. Just try and see how difficult it is to just be kind. See whether you've got autonomy, see whether you can control what you eat and drink, whether you can control what you say, Have you got control of your thoughts? You know, how kind are you? What are you contributing to the Nevermind the business of the world? I'm paraphrasing Rumi Never mind the business of the world. Businesses, the world has no business if you're What are you contributing. And I complain and shake my fist at the television because of another corrupt politician, I'm just adding to the negative Factbook. Because anger feeds off anger. Pain feeds off pain, drama feeds off drama. So I want to bring a bit of software, I want to love everything that breathes. That is easy to say. Very difficult to do. But that's the work. For me that's worth getting out of bed in the morning.

Brian Smith  1:07:28  
Absolutely. But Jeff, we're coming to the end of our time, I really appreciate the conversation. I appreciate your your wisdom that you're sharing. I think the way that you've taught us to think about forgiveness is going to make it easier, maybe for some people to be able to do because we do find it difficult. Sometimes I feel like we Yeah, and I love what you said about you know, holding on to that anger and thinking it's it's serving us and thinking it's us. And being able to just separate a little bit from that. I think for some people,

Geoff Thompson  1:07:58  
it wants you to think you're powerful. It wants you to think you've got control. And it wants you to think you hold you hold, you know their destiny in your hands. You don't it wants you to feel that because it feeds off that they wants you wants to constantly be covert, the moment you expose it to light, it becomes a light. So this is just about getting a bit of an expanded consciousness. So if you don't want to feed a person that's abused, ya, let them go give them over.

Brian Smith  1:08:27  
Absolutely. So Jeff, where can people reach you?

Geoff Thompson  1:08:31  
I'm not really anywhere. I'm on the internet. You know, I I'm, I post on an Instagram page, but I'm not on there. I just post loads of stuff on there. So there's loads of free material on there. And it's just Jeff underscore, Thompson underscore official, Jeff Thompson official. Okay, there's loads of stuff online. I've got a TED talk online about fear of forgiveness. So there's lots of stuff they can access. They can get, obviously, they can buy the book off Amazon, or they can get it free from the library. So that's available. But yeah, if they want to look at some of the free material, it's all on my site on my Instagram page. Okay,

Brian Smith  1:09:09  
I'll put that in the show notes. Also in the book again, it's 99 reasons to forgive and revenge is one of them. Jeff, again, thank you so much for being here today. Thanks, Brian. I'm excited to not I have a great new resource. It's called gems, four steps to move from grief to joy. And what it is it's four things that I've found that I do on a daily basis to help me to navigate my grief. And I'm offering it to you free of charge. It's a free download. Just go to my website, www dot grief to growth.com/gems G m s and grab it there for free. I hope you enjoy it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai