He Had A Hellish NDE- Dr. Raj Parti

Brian Smith  0:00  
Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed we've been planted and having been planted would grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith.

Announcer  0:47  
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Brian Smith  1:50  
Hey, everybody I'm back with this is Brian back with another episode of grief to growth and today I've got with me Dr. Rajiv party, he had a very interesting near death experience I think you're gonna be really interested to hear about. It brought him on a journey through the afterworld leading to a spiritual awakening that transformed his career, his lifestyle and even his fundamental beliefs. Before his end, he was a wealthy man of science with a successful career as a chief of anesthesiology at the Bakersfield Heart Hospital in California. He demanded the same success from his son as he did for himself. And they had some issues because of that. All know, he was the last man to believe in heaven or hell, until he saw heaven and hell with his own eyes. When he had his nd E on the operating table. He first watched his operation from the ceiling and I'm gonna let him tell you his story himself started reading that to you from his bio. But think about it. He has a remarkable spiritual transformation after you as experienced and we're going to talk about that as well. So with that, I want to welcome Dr. Rajiv party.

Raj Parti  2:54  
It's my pleasure to be here.

Brian Smith  2:56  
I'm really looking forward to having this interview with you today. And I really appreciate you sharing your story with us. I know that some sensitive things about it, but if you could tell me about your experience, what happened to you?

Raj Parti  3:10  
You know, in 2008, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. And one of the options was radical prostatectomy to take the whole prostate out. I opted for that. So that cured me of prostate cancer, but it left me with complications like impotency and incontinence. Since 2010. After about approximately two years, I was not getting better than UCLA. The implanted artificial sprinter bought me to be able to control my bladder function that got infected about on Christmas, by by Christmas Eve, I got very sick. And that's when my wife rushed me to UCLA University of California, Los Angeles hospital. And they emergency surgery because our septic and the main thing is if your septic and is is infection and is a foreign body, it becomes the source of infection, the sooner you take out, the better it is. And that's when I had the experience.

Brian Smith  4:19  
Well, tell me about your experience.

Raj Parti  4:21  
Okay, so they rushed me to the surgery. And then while I had looked at the clock when I had gone in, so approximately 1520 minutes later, I was surprised to see myself floating near the ceiling. And I could hear and I could see what the surgeons were doing. So most of the anesthesiologist told a joke, I can't repeat it, but I still remember it. You know, I'm Iris geologists and part of our job is to keep the atmosphere right in the operating room. Okay. So From there, my gosh says went to different times, I would say I would like to say it went to heaven like most of the people say, but it went to a hellish realm where I could see the souls wailing and crying, and worry and misery. And my first question was, why am I here? And the realization was given to me that I had not been good, man. Good. I was very good technically as a physician, but I had no connection with my patients. And for me, money was everything. Expensive cars, I lived in a 10,000 square foot house, on a golf course and lake. I used to drive a Hummer, the extreme SUV, it gave only eight miles a gallon. And I'm a Hindu by birth. But I was not practicing any religion. We just went for functions, religious holidays, to party, basically, excuse to party, and that our God transformed my near death experience. So when I was in the Harry Shum, I cried for help. And my father showed up, I had a very difficult relationship with a father, in today's age, I will say my father had PTSD, because he was product of trauma. When the India Pakistan separated as two countries, there was mass murder on both sides, and my family was stuck on the Pakistan side. So here to lie among dead bodies to escape, being murdered by the Muslim mob. And he came to India. And and the Hindus did the same thing to Muslims on the other side. So it was one side. And so he whose education was cut short, he could not become what he wanted to become in life. So he was living his life through me. And he wanted me to succeed. But, but there are different ways of motivating a child than beating him up every time. But here, he asked for forgiveness, and I realized he actually loved me. And I forgave him. And then I touched his feet. You know, like in India, you always touch the feet of elders. And he blessed me and he reminded me of the words he'd said on his deathbed. He died. Now 25 years ago in Fresno, California after complication from heart surgery, and he told me, in Hindi, Indian language, better apne Nia Safak number one birthday Liga, which literally translate if you keep your conscience clear, God will bless you. So I had forgotten about that, he reminded me. And then he led me towards the teller. And in that journal I had review of my personal drive was was most amazing was a hair review of my past lives. And in the past life. In this life, I used to have pain in my wrist because I had torn my cartilage. And I had two surgeries on wrist. And it was chronically painful. So almost two times I was not able to work. So in that life, I saw myself whipping the farmers and my soldiers were doing the same thing. And I asked for forgiveness from the farmers, and they forgive me in this life. When I woke up, my pain was gone. I was able to walk without any pain. So I had a review of my present life to dinner. It was basically it was like I was made to feel what the other person was feeling. Good and bad. You know, I did some good things, too. Yeah. So what the other person was feeling. And from the tunnel, on the other side, I was greeted by two angels. I knew their angels, but I did not know who were there. Their names or anything. Then they tell you particularly told me that the one was Michael with a blue shoe, and one was rough here. And that made sense to me later on when I read Rafeal is the engine for healing for people who are sick and for doctors. And Michael is a chief of illness for strength is a chief of angels. And they guided me above a meadow towards the light and stream was flowing. And I could distinctly hear the sound own. And when I was in the presence of light, it was like 1000 suns, but it was not hurting the eyes. And then I was given the realization, that is not my time yet, but my life has changed dramatically. I have to go to anesthesia and become a spiritual man, and help people wake up. And that's what my transfer transformation started. And then I woke up in the recovery room with a jeweled I told the nurses about my story. They believed it because they had heard similar stories from before. But when I told the doctors, oh, you must be dreaming are something you know, maybe hallucinating. I told that to my family. My wife believed my daughter believed my sons were agnostic about it. You know, it didn't matter. But when my life just started changing, then my wife for sure believed it. There's something happened. You know, then after I woke up, I sold my hammer. I sold my house, and I moved to a smaller house. In a decent house in moderate house. It doesn't have to be for two people who live in a 10,000 square foot house. And my life literally and figuratively went from hammer to hybrid. You know, and then I resigned from my job as an anesthesiologist. And I've been a spiritual seeker since then. And I have learned meditation practice. I'm a teacher from Chopra University, even Deepak Chopra, by meditation, I learned yoga there. And I learned I read. And I learned even other disciplines, like EFT. And Das was my immediate transformation. But there's other things which happened later. I can tell you more data as we go along. Yeah, absolutely. So my book is only up to my life of 2012 to three years after my near death experience, but a lot of things happened after that.

Brian Smith  12:41  
Okay. Yeah, I'd love to do that. Let's, let's go over some some questions about your experience itself. So I'm curious as to as being an anesthesiologist being in the medical profession. I'm assuming you've heard of MD ease. What were your thoughts about nd ease before this?

Raj Parti  12:59  
You know, I used to think people have hallucinations. And, you know, as I was with the religion, you know, my Hindu religion, I didn't care. It didn't make me difference. was the true the not true? I never gave it a thought. Yeah,

Brian Smith  13:21  
yeah. And so you said you were raised Hindu, but you were kind of nominally Hindu. You weren't really practicing. I'm curious about what is the what is Hindu teaching about is are there hellish realms? Or is there a hell in Hinduism?

Raj Parti  13:34  
That is ahead of Hinduism? Pathol? Look, yeah.

Brian Smith  13:38  
Okay. And why do you think you experienced that? As you mentioned earlier, most of the time, we hear about nd ease, we hear positive experiences, but we do know there's a certain percentage that are that are we call less than positive?

Raj Parti  13:54  
You know, they say, pain is 100 times more transformative than pleasure. And maybe I need a lot of transformation in my life. You know, to transform. Yeah, because I can't give a reason why people ask me, why did you have nd and somebody else doesn't have nd you know, and there's no reason I can give, you know, why I can relate the fact?

Brian Smith  14:26  
Sure, sure. I just wonder what's your thought might be on that because it is, it is an experience that people have, but it seems to be relatively rare. You know, one thing I and I want to bring this up because I post in the experiences on my website. And a lot of times people ask me, What about how, and it was interesting. I was listening to a guy who had in the just a couple of days ago and he said I want he experienced how and he claimed How was eternal a place of infinite punishment, eternal punishment, but yet he didn't Stay in Howard Turnley, he was taken out similarly to you were, what are your thoughts? Now, after you've had this experience about an eternal hell?

Raj Parti  15:08  
You know what I believe? If you own up to your mistakes, and you are forgiven, or you forgive yourself for your mistakes, and you ask for help from God or your ancestors, you can get another one.

Brian Smith  15:28  
Yeah, that seems to be your experience. And as I said, I've heard a couple of people who have had these experiences, and they'll insist that Hell's internal, yet they're almost always removed from hell themselves. This guy said he was taken down, and he almost touched the lake of fire. And then he was, you know, he was he was rescued. And that seems to be fairly universal experience.

Raj Parti  15:49  
That's what I'm saying, you know, I was rescued by my father.

Brian Smith  15:53  
Yes, yes. And you said, you're your father, and you had a strange relationship. So were you surprised that your father was the one that rescued you?

Raj Parti  16:00  
I was very surprised. He looked much younger. And so that was the first position I had, he loved me after all. Growing up, I thought he didn't love me. You know, he was he I got my Shira waiting if you had a bad day in the office, and I did even a small mistake, I used to get greedy.

Brian Smith  16:23  
Yeah. And you're you'd mentioned in your, in your bio, that you your relationship with your son, I think at the time was was kind of strained. Do you think that was a result of the relationship you have with your father?

Raj Parti  16:36  
Exactly. Because I was becoming my father was he was not good in studies. And I wanted him to become a doctor, not considering what he wants to do. So after my nd he flunked his medical school. But I was calm. And I said, if you don't want to be a doctor, you can leave three left to a medical school, and then went into computers. And now he's in San Francisco and very happy. He's not probably making as much as he could have made as a doctor. But the main thing now I realize it is the happiness of what you joy you get from your work.

Brian Smith  17:19  
And, you know, you said before, you're India, you're pursuing material things. You had the house, you had the car, did you feel like that stuff brought you happiness?

Raj Parti  17:30  
Again, it was always more more more. To be honest with you. I had initially done pediatrics residency. But pediatricians are the lowest paying specialty in America. So I said, let me go to a specialty, which makes the maximum money very good money. So I went into that second residency, residency is not easy. And anesthesia, so I could literally double my income.

Brian Smith  18:02  
I think a lot of us think that making more money having more stuff will make us happy, which is an interesting illusion. Because when we talk to people that have the level that we think we would be happy at, they're not happy.

Raj Parti  18:16  
Yeah. So you know, like, I think in the basic, their rent also even there, then lot of studies, if the basic needs are met, you know, food shelter, in a car, which takes you from one place to another, then the amount of money doesn't make you happy. There, that's my experience, is the relationships which make you happy.

Brian Smith  18:42  
Yeah. And there have been studies that actually back that up that happiness once you reach a certain level of income, and it changes, of course, but when you're reaching a certain level of income, the happiness scale does not go up as you make more money.

Raj Parti  18:56  
Yeah. But you still have need your basic needs met?

Brian Smith  19:00  
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So you said a lot of times when people have near death experiences, they're very reluctant to share them with other people. And I think especially a doctor because doctors are trained to be very material. You know, you could disagree with that if you'd like but so you actually share it with the nurses pretty much right away that you'd have this experience. Yeah.

Raj Parti  19:27  
And you know, I share with my colleagues to date her and then I, the resigning this or have gone crazy to live give up such a lucrative job. I was making really good money to give that out to forests filter bad. Literally, I'm crazy.

Brian Smith  19:47  
So when you were you're in the operating room, you have this experience, is there any documentation that your heart stopped or anything like that,

Raj Parti  19:54  
you know, and American American,

Brian Smith  19:56  
okay. And you You were able To tell them the joke that the anesthesiologist told while you were while you're out, was there an explanation for that your ability to do that?

Raj Parti  20:11  
No, you know, it wasn't my experience.

Brian Smith  20:15  
I just curious that the doctor said, Well, this is because of you know,

Raj Parti  20:20  
as anesthesiologists, I can tell you hearing is the first sense which comes back. Okay. And he said, Maybe you were light in anesthesia. But if he was light in anesthesia, why was I not in pain? Yes. If I was like, Nancy, I should have been. Right. But I didn't have been right.

Brian Smith  20:48  
And I was listening to one of your accounts early, I think you said you saw some family members who were still here. When you had your experience. Is that true?

Raj Parti  20:57  
No, I saw my mother in India,

Brian Smith  21:03  
in India, right, right. And what was she doing at the time?

Raj Parti  21:08  
He she and my sister were discussing what to cook for dinner, because it was morning time here. It was evening time there. Then I called my mother, when I was well enough to call and she corroborated.

Brian Smith  21:27  
So it sounds like you never had any doubt of your experience. You know, you did you did you think okay, well, maybe I was lighter than anesthesia? Or maybe this was a dream? Or did you know immediately that this was real?

Raj Parti  21:41  
I know it was because as I said, the changes happen in me. And all right, kind of fast. That is the proof.

Brian Smith  21:53  
Yeah. And your belief in reincarnation before this again. I know your background is Hindi. And I know that's common and Hindu religion. But as you give it much thought to reincarnation,

Raj Parti  22:08  
in a growing up in India, it is given that we are reincarnated. So I believe before, but I didn't pay attention. So my belief was confirmed, because I saw our past life and my wrist healed. Yeah, it's never late to forgive somebody or ask for forgiveness, even if you do it in the past that person has died. Or you, you can still ask forgiveness.

Brian Smith  22:39  
I think that's a very important lesson. You know, I've heard so many people, I deal with people in grief. And we have regrets. Because we've said something or we didn't say something or we did something in the past. And when I hear people say, what's too late to ask for forgiveness, that because they're gone? So how would you respond to that?

Raj Parti  22:58  
No, one day, you can say that this, this the sin of spirit, you know, you can ask forgiveness, you know, you can write a letter to them. And just burn it and let it go through the ethers through to their spirit.

Brian Smith  23:14  
Yeah. So how did your family respond to your changes? When when you again, I think that there's a lot of evidence why and near death experiences are real and you had a couple of what we call vertical things you had, you could tell a joke, the anesthesiologist told you could sell it your mother and your sister were doing an MD at the time you had your operation. But the other the other things by in the US it is amazing is people literally changed their lives and people don't change their lives because of hallucinations. So how did your family respond to that?

Raj Parti  23:49  
Okay, I said my sister, my daughter believed my wife believed. But my boys, they were agnostic, they didn't care. But, you know, five, six years later, my initially my marriage improved. I've been married for 35 years. And then my marriage started falling apart. In it because I was not the same man, my wife married and you know, the divorce rate of people who are nd is almost double. From regular Driver's Ed. Even Dr. Eben Alexander is a classic example he got I was after his MD and so that I had to work on saving marriage. My marriage was only one signature short of finalizing the divorce. And from there we turned around, mutual love, mutual respect, mutual care. There was not just love, it will respect and care that we practice both of us And forgiveness for each one of us that we turn around and my last five years have been the best five years of my 35 years of marriage. Oh, wow,

Brian Smith  25:10  
that just gave me goosebumps. That's so good to hear. You know, when my daughter passed away, I had some people come to me and quote to me statistics about people who lose a child. And the divorce rate is so high, which is actually not true. But people say that, but I know it is true for people that have near death experiences. But it does go to show that if you work at it, you can you can come back from it. But these changes, and this is why I've heard some people even say, Well, I'm literally not the same person. I was when I when I when I before I had my experience, like, I have a different soul or something. So the spouse says, Who is this person who's this person? This is not the person that I'm married.

Raj Parti  25:51  
And that's one thing that's happened happened in my marriage. You know, so I had to work on it. And then I had to, it was a lot of work, you know, like giving you an example. You know, I was busy giving lectures, and I had forgotten to take care of my wife, I took her Oh, she's a Indian woman. She's a very she going to go and I took her for granted. giving an example, we went to the mall, and I asked her, What do you want for coffee? And she said, Don't you know you've been married to me for so many years? What I like for coffee? In the small things count. And then I remember she thank God she loves coca Filati. I didn't know her size. But no, I do small things like buy a nightstand. She likes to have a glass of water. So I made sure every night that I put water there. And the small things, you know what I remind is me or Mother Teresa's code. We all can't do big things. But we all can do little things with great love.

Brian Smith  27:00  
And is that a lesson you learned from your MBE? When you are from your from your life review?

Raj Parti  27:05  
Yeah, I learned the power of forgiveness. My wrist healing was the biggest proof. Because in this life, I was having pain.

Brian Smith  27:15  
Right? Right. So that you think that was a carryover from the things you have done in the past life. And that was manifesting itself as physical discomfort in this life,

Raj Parti  27:25  
and deadly.

Brian Smith  27:29  
So I know that you said you in your book you taught you just kind of stopped and a couple of years after your near death experience. So what has happened to us since that time?

Raj Parti  27:41  
So one thing I told you about my marriage. And then I had visions of Jesus Christ and angels, you know, dreams and angels. So I was led to Christianity to follow Jesus because I had felt the presence of Jesus in my near death experience. But I had not seen him. But I had visions later on of Jesus. And I was running around doing different things. And I was not fond a career path. So I went to the local church here, Twin Peaks, and to become a member of that church, and they actually baptized me in the ocean. There was, you know, like they said, You know, Jesus was baptized in Jordan River. Right? So the baptized ocean in the Pacific Ocean, it was scary, because I don't know how to swim. It was. But it was a short dip only than they were two people behind me two people in front of me, in case I float away. So but then, traditional Christianity was not vibing with me. So then there is something known as a new thought. Yes. And I became passionate about new thought. That's where I am now. The Unity movement.

Brian Smith  29:14  
Yes, interest. That's very interesting, because a lot of people that have had near death experiences give up their religion. It's just the opposite. They're like, I don't want anything to do with religion. Jesus is a big fixture in near death experiences or even for people that aren't are Christians. You know, you said you were nominally Hindu. I interviewed a young man. He was three years old. He had an experience he experienced Jesus. He was he was a Jew who was raised Jewish. So I do believe that there seems to be something to Jesus. But you found traditional Christianity lacking?

Raj Parti  29:51  
Yeah. See what I like about the new thought is, then God is not A old man with a white man with an old man with a beard sitting in a throne above in the sky. They talk about the God is within us. You know, like Jesus, who walked the earth had, you know reached the highest potential of humankind. And that's how he became Christ. So our goal is to increase the level of our consciousness to Christ consciousness, which we all are capable of doing.

Brian Smith  30:35  
Interesting. So the the ideas of Christianity about, you know, being saved by Jesus being being crucified and about eternal hell and things like that you don't believe in?

Raj Parti  30:49  
I don't believe, okay. A new part of that new thought, especially the Unity just does not believe in.

Brian Smith  30:56  
Yeah, I actually did. I don't go to church anymore. But the last church I attended was unity. And that's the closest thing I've found to if I were going to go to church, that's where where I would go because it is much more open. As you said, God has got us within. There's no Original Sin teaching. There's none of that stuff that some of the trappings that I think people put on to Jesus's teachings.

Raj Parti  31:21  
Yeah. And something they say, religion is what Jesus taught not about Jesus. Christianity is what do you start? No, should not be about Jesus.

Brian Smith  31:39  
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, the thing is that, you know, the, the Bible that we have, and I don't want to get too far into this, but the Bible that we have is there wasn't written by Jesus. And so I don't know how much he would approve or not approve of it. So what were the what were some of the lessons that you that you came back with? I know that there you mentioned, there were seven spiritual lessons that you learned what were some of them, you know,

Raj Parti  32:05  
some of them whereas I mentioned, like we have past life, and cautious can live without body, and we are all connected to each other. And the true nature of God is love. And what else was it? Yeah, the

Brian Smith  32:27  
that sounds sounds great. And your your father? And I use as your father was a harsh man, when he was here. Do you believe that we continue to grow after we after we cross over?

Raj Parti  32:43  
I think so. He was changed when when I met him. He was changed man. Yeah.

Brian Smith  32:53  
And What have your experiences a lot of times when people again have had near death experiences, they'll come back with various abilities, psychic abilities, you know, sometimes weird things will happen around them with electronics and things like that. So if you had anything like that,

Raj Parti  33:09  
not exactly, you know, I became more intuitive and became have visions. And actually I had a shared that experience, too. If you read my book, there was vision and shared experience, my best friend died with liver cancer. And then when he was dying, I went to with him up to a certain level, and then I turned back. That's when I saw Jesus. And that's when actually Jesus said that my name should be Michael, my religious name or spiritual name is Michael. So when I got baptized, you know, baptism was only two, three years ago. Then my name became Rajiv Michael Bharti. That's what baptism certificate says.

Brian Smith  33:59  
Okay, okay. So you you have other experiences, you said you've had visions, and you had to share death experience, which is something that a lot of people aren't really familiar with. I wasn't myself until just a few years ago.

Raj Parti  34:11  
Yeah. In a shared his experiences with somebody near and dear to you, or nurses working in a hospice experienced, your soul goes to certain level towards heaven or hell or you know, on the journey of the other floor. But there is a fence there is a valley or there is a river that stops your soul, but the other soul keeps going. So you're told to go back

Brian Smith  34:48  
and so what was the barrier that you saw when you crossed with your friend?

Raj Parti  34:52  
It was a I think a long

Brian Smith  34:59  
way Was that? Are you there? Were you present with him physically when he crossed? Or was were you at a desk?

Raj Parti  35:04  
Actually, I saw him at night. And then in the morning, I woke up, certainly. And then my wife told me he just passed. Okay. I saw a light in my room.

Brian Smith  35:22  
Okay. And have you had any experiences of sin FM since then has it come to you at all? And then kind of when

Raj Parti  35:29  
I see him in dreams, and vision and dreams, you know, and, you know, like, for me, the biggest proof is that I became a and then to Christianity.

Brian Smith  35:42  
Yeah, yeah. So you're, you're a totally changed man at this point from who you were. Before, you know, before you had this experience. And so what is it you're doing today? So um,

Raj Parti  35:56  
Unity has a program called licensed unity teacher, some studying to be licensed, you need a teacher and I have given my appreciation to be Minister School of unity. So if I get accepted or become a reverend, so then I'll be giving sermons every Sunday and be a help to my community. Like this book I'm reading Eric Butterworth universe is calling. I've heard. Basically, he's talking about how to pray without talking to God. In a god, you don't always beg for things. You're not trying to please God with flattery.

Brian Smith  36:46  
So So what are your thoughts on God? That's, that's a big subject. So what is God to you?

Raj Parti  36:55  
God is a Universal Spirit, that you manifest through us. And people give different names. And God when I say God is not the solution, God, but that's the easiest way to say,

Brian Smith  37:14  
Yeah, I know people do get hung up on the word God, because it does imply Christianity does imply the guy sitting on the throne, who's there to judge us? And I know that's not what you mean. That's why I wanted to give you an opportunity, though.

Raj Parti  37:28  
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, you're not judge you're in love you loved. Yeah. And there is grace, which is always flowing in the way I say grace does not differentiate between a sinner or somebody who has done bad, who is good grace is there for everyone. And what we need to do is like on a boat, there is a mask. So we need to hoist a mass, and the wind will take you so grace is there for everyone. But we have to make the effort to rehearse the mass

Brian Smith  38:04  
of analogy. So we need to accept the grace that's constantly flowing.

Raj Parti  38:09  
And one of the favorite parables for me for Bible is the parable of the sower. So, the seeds are falling you know, they fall on the rocky soil, they don't germinate the foreign thorns did germinate, but then they wither away, you know, the four levels and once they follow our effort, which has been land which has been prepared for it, they grow and become big trees. So, we have to prepare for the seeds, the land for them to germinate and grow. So, we have to do our part.

Brian Smith  38:49  
So, what are your thoughts? Now, I know you saw the good thing about death much before your Express but what are your thoughts on death? Now, when someone passes like your friend for example, how do you view view that

Raj Parti  39:04  
inner death is you know, like like Indian book, Gita is the Bible of Hindus says stories which cannot be caught, cannot be burned and cannot be dried. And death is basically changing of clothes for the soul. The old body has worn out so the soul leaves the body and takes birth as a newborn.

Brian Smith  39:33  
Okay, so you don't see death as as an end to anything other than the physical body. Yes, sir. Okay. Well, your your experience is fascinating, and I think I thank you for sharing it. I know. Sometimes when people have what we call negative I don't like the word negative but less than pleasant near death experiences. They feel some sort of shame about sharing them. And I think we shouldn't turn away from all experiences because I think they're all they can all teach us something.

Raj Parti  40:08  
Yeah. Network. I'm shedding you know, I go to Selma, I went to heaven, you know, to look good brandy to say what things happen?

Brian Smith  40:20  
Well, you know, it's I PMH Atwater tells a story about I think she was in a room giving a lecture and someone stood up and said, they had a hellish near death experience. And they said, it was the best experience of their life. And another person said, they had a heavenly and they had that experience. And they said, it wasn't the best experience of their life. But that, that it seems to be for some people kind of a turning point, kind of a kind of a wake up call.

Raj Parti  40:45  
Yeah. You know, the makeup gone. For me, that's what my book name is dying to wake up.

Brian Smith  40:51  
Right. So, in your opinion, and I know, you know, I'm asking you something that you may not have an answer to. But that experience or that hellish experience, do you think that's like a self imposed thing? It's because it's it's self imposed or think it's imposed from the outside?

Raj Parti  41:12  
hellish experience is, I think self imposed, said, You have to be responsible for your actions.

Brian Smith  41:21  
Yeah, that would, that would be my understanding. I think, I think some times people, when they cross over, subconsciously, maybe even feel like, I'm not worthy of, you know, going to that that blissful place. And it seems to me that to be a temporary thing as it was for you, until we realized that's not this is not where I want to be.

Raj Parti  41:45  
Yeah. And then you have to show some repentance to make amends and ask for help. And he said, grace is there for everyone in this life and in the afterlife? And that grace can save you?

Brian Smith  42:02  
Yeah, yeah. Well, um, anything else you'd like to share before we before we end today?

Raj Parti  42:10  
It was a great conversation.

Brian Smith  42:12  
Yeah, I thank you very much for doing this. I think this is, again, a very, very important lesson. Because when we hear these reports, right, and I don't want to ignore the negative reports, or that are the not so pleasant reports. But we need to put them in some sort of context. And people have taken this idea that someone says I went to, and I again, I've heard several people say this, and I can't emphasize it enough. I went to a place of eternal torment, but universally, they're not there. So they were all taken out. Somehow, Howard storm famously had a not so pleasant experience. When he asked for help, he was taken out. And every time I've heard I've heard anybody share a negative experience. They were somehow rescued from it. And I think that's a very important lesson that there is

Raj Parti  42:58  
that you know, people ask me how to get a handle on your mistakes, ask for help and pray.

Brian Smith  43:06  
Yeah. And the other lesson I take from that is it's never too late.

Raj Parti  43:09  
It's never too late and, and forgiveness is never too late. That's one of my best advice.

Brian Smith  43:17  
Yeah, we talked a party. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you, Brian, Rosalind today, yeah. All right. Enjoy the rest of your day. Oh, god, thank you

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai