MIND-BLOWING Urban Legend: The True Story Behind the Hospital Shoe NDE!

Announcer
Hi there. Welcome to grief to growth podcast. Your host is Brian Smith, spiritual seeker, best selling author, grief survivor and life coach. Ryan believes that the worst tragedies of life provide the greatest opportunity for growth. Brian says he was planted, not buried, and he is here to help you grow where you've been planted by the difficulties in life. In each episode, Brian and his guests will share what has helped them to survive and thrive. It is his sincere hope this episode helps you today.

Brian Smith
All right, everybody. This is Brian Smith back with another episode of grief to growth. And today I've got with me, Kimberly Clark sharp. And we're going to talk Kimberly has had a fascinating life and does some really amazing things now, but she's had a near death experience we're going to talk about but first of all, give a little bit more about her background. She's the author of the book after the light, the spiritual path, the purpose. We're going to talk about the book. She's the founder of the Seattle International Association of Daredevil Or, as most of us most of us call ions, which is the world's oldest and largest support group for near death experiences. Kim was named one of the 40 most influential people under the age of 40. In the Pacific Northwest in 1987. For the for her work in the field of death and dying. She's a founder of the Department of Social Work at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Institute. Our research center answers today. She's a pioneer in the field of critical care, social work, international conference and workshop speakers. She's been published in many journals, textbooks and magazines. She's a consultant in news and entertainment industry. She was a co teacher of terminal illness seminar at the School of Medicine at the University of Washington, a clinical assistant professor at the School of Social Work at the University of Washington, and she has a Master's of social work from the University of Washington. So Kim, that's quite a resume, but Welcome to grief to grow.

Kim Clark Sharp
And all that I'm actually a happy wife and mother. Yeah, I you know, life Good.

Brian Smith
Yeah. So you're, you're obviously I would say somewhat of an expert in the field of death and dying. Did that start with your near death experience? No. Oh, really? Okay, so tell me

Kim Clark Sharp
my level of awareness. Yeah, I know. Um, but after my near death experience, I was pushed into it I would say, okay, by I say God, but I don't mean that in any religious or gender thing. I mean, I use a pronoun, him or his that's just my cultural brought up, you know, I mean, I'm a Lutheran, pretty mainstream Americana. So when I pray, I pray to God and when I give thanks, I give thanks to God. And God made me do it. That's bottom line. That's This is all I you know, it was all God's plan. I'm just putting one foot in front of the other and going forward and getting my occasional added girls and

Brian Smith
yeah, so what got you started in being interested in death and dying that if it wasn't the near death experience?

Kim Clark Sharp
Well, I'm just for the sake of reference, maybe we should start with my near death experience which we can like, launch from that.

interview.

Brian Smith
No start wherever you feel comfortable.

Kim Clark Sharp
Okay. So I was a college student.

May 25 1970. I was home for the weekend from college. I was with my dad in Shawnee Mission, Kansas. I'm from Eastern Kansas. And we were at the Department of Motor Vehicles. It was about time for me to you know, get a car, get a license, yada yada. I was in perfect health as the young person and yet I'm gonna actually Brian tell you my dad's perspective, because it's different for mine. So according to my father, and I'm so glad I had a witness to this event, I mean, that's handy in addition to my medical records, but yeah, um, I was feeling fine, but I don't remember anything beyond turning to my dad while I was waiting for my number to come up, which I realized is kind of a cosmic joke. Well, yeah, a lot. A lot of jokes like that in my life. Now. Anyway, that is a deal. I was waiting for my number to come up. And I told my dad that I wanted to sit down because I felt funny and he said, there weren't any chairs. That's it for my memory on what I call top side, which is like the reality of consensual reality, if you will. So what he said is that I managed to sign all the papers appropriately and we were leaving the building as they were exiting, my complexion was white on white. And most of them pretty pale because I'm Northern European descent. This is pretty white, so even lighter, and then I collapsed into it through his arms, dead weight is heavier than living weight so he could not hold me out. We were on the sidewalk, and there happened to be a uniformed nurse passing by, who ran over and determined I wasn't breathing and didn't have a pulse. So the volunteer fire department from Shawnee Mission Kansas was called as well as an ambulance from St. Luke's Medical Center in Kansas City, Missouri, which was the closest trauma center and that's what they were interested in providing for me an actual trauma center. So medics arrived First, again, according to my father, that brand new ventilator portable ventilator, called the Andersen ventilator for those who are old enough to remember that we're in healthcare at that time, anyway, opened up the packaging and applied the seal to my nose and mouth. There were two functions on this new ventilator one was to, of course, push air in, which is what you want. The other though, was to extract objects that might be blocking the airway. But we tell our kids don't run with, you know, candy in your mouth, or it's actually this happens at a restaurant, it's actually called a cafe coronary, if the airway is blocked by food. So that was the vacuum mode. And as it turns out, because it was new, and they hadn't practiced it, the default was in vacuum. So they flicked the switch to ventilate instead, literally suck the life out of me. Wow. Yeah. So it was immediately apparent when it happened. That flicked the switch again, pump the area, but enough of my lungs had come in contact with themselves or lungs are sticky suckers. And if it's like a lung collapse under the circumstances, it takes ICU ventilation and time and steady pressure to safely open them up. Well, that part of my lungs which had already come in contact, because of that vacuum, it just, again just sucked everything out of my lungs. The high pressure of air going into my body could not separate my lung tissues from themselves entirely. So what I do guess, but not entirely, so the air had to go somewhere. Fortunately, a lot hit my brain because what I'm about to tell you was an hour and a half, according to my father, between collapse when we were leaving the DMV, and when we entered the emergency room at St. Luke's It was a long resuscitation. They were basically Working on a kid, you know, they I look younger than I do now anyway. And

the air, though went to found its way to my skin. And I literally Brian, I blew up like a flesh balloon. It's called EPA sealeo emphysema. And it's very hard to recover from that. So that was a hot mess. So the medics, and bless their hearts, you know, no one was mad at them. It was just a thing. But they turned to my father and said, I'm so sorry. And then, man that my dad has always called the Good Samaritan came from behind. Now a pretty large crowd because I don't know about where you live. But in eastern Kansas, if there's somebody dead on the sidewalk, you know, it's news, even without the internet at that time, it's like no, get on down to the DMV. There's a girl dead on sidewalk. So that was me. And there were a lot of people But this man came from behind this crowd, swearing like a mule skinner and did what we now call citizen CPR. And then he gave up and turned to my dad and said, I'm not getting a blankety blank like blankety blank, like blankety blank blank like thing. And so I was pronounced twice, basically. And then my father's memory your grieving parent. My dad went into shock. He has no memory of anything after that for a while. Somebody brought up a chair. He doesn't know where that came from. He remembers a lot of hoses on the ground. But then the ambulance had arrived. My body was in the back of the ambulance and I was breathing on my own, although I was still unconscious. Hmm. But my dad jumped in the back of the vehicle off we went to St. Luke's things went sour again in the emergency room. But again, I hate to give away the ending to a good book and I wrote a good book, but I'm I lived Yeah, I hope that's clear in this interview I am alive. Yes very

Brian Smith
quick.

Kim Clark Sharp
So that's what my dad remembers.

By the way, I did pull my medical records because I thought when I when I wrote after the light this book I didn't want some journalists getting access to records that I hadn't viewed myself. So it's a good thing because you can't chart like this anymore. One of the first lines in the ER was cause of collapse unknown at this time question mark coronary. But what what did mean basically was they called it the snafu with a ventilator. I thought, what a snafu. Yeah, yeah, that was snafu. So anyway, what I remember is pretty much none of that. I first, remember a woman's voice to my left. I'm not getting a pulse, I'm not getting a pulse. And with the same measure of patience that I am demonstrating right now, I turned to her and said, Of course you're getting a pulse. Otherwise, I wouldn't be talking. You know, it's kind of a snotty college kid. It's like, hey, wait, wake up. Yeah. She ignored me. And she got more and more agitated. So suddenly awkward position. Not really comforting her but trying like, Okay, I'm okay. I'm right here. So then, I don't know, Brian did I get into a near death net? I thought oh, Cam I'm out of here. I found myself immediately in a different environment. I knew I wasn't alone. It was warm kind of bomb even. It was pleasant. But I couldn't see who I was with or where it was because of surrounded by great material, like fog. And if I may interrupt myself here and just say I've had a lot of I'm trying to examine my near death experience. As it turns out, during and after a little bit after World War Two, there were more movies made globally about the afterlife than any other time in cinema history. And the world was in kind of like pandemic mode, but it was war. Exactly. Yeah. So there were movies made about the afterlife in our allied countries of Europe and such but also Japan, Italy, and Germany, and of course, America. Of all the movies I've collected, and I've been a collector. They all have this foggy material in it every last one. So I wonder if that isn't a place we all might go to or pass through. Or it's just a collective human consciousness. I don't know. But I thought it was interesting. Yeah. Anyway, I knew I was waiting for something. It was like I was at the airport. I had my boarding pass. I'm just waiting for My road would be called. I mean, it was such confidence that I was in the right place. And then what I seem to be waiting for showed up big time. underneath me was a oh my gosh, if I had been on Earth, it would have just boomed the whole earth. So much energy. It was a light though. There was a light brighter than a million suns. If that's possible. I haven't even looked into our own Sun. But I could look at this light as if I had eyeballs I was seeing, but my eyeballs would have been back in mind physical body. So what the heck was I'd be holding, but I was beholding what I call God. But it doesn't again matter what you call it. I'm really happy with my Creator. I like that. This light came up, it's blasted all the fog of material way and it just

I had a hard time describe your life. I mean, all these years later I get touched because of the love. It was, it was so much love. And it was directed at me personally. And I but yes and no, it was just for everybody in everything. We are creating love by God and it moves me obviously to this day it humbles me to I did nothing in my life, I thought deserve this, but there was an IT, it spread out in all directions. And it was if I could simultaneously see in all directions, and it was linear. It went on and on or on. And I had the presence of mind to go oh my gosh, I'm be holding eternity. It was eternity. But at the same time in a way I can't describe Sorry, I get awkward clump, but I understand and I'm sincere anyway. But, um, it was also endlessly Larry about itself and I I'm just kind of downloaded information. I don't know, download is a good word. But it wasn't available to me at that time. Right? It was like I was also not only beholding time eternally, but dimensions. And it too, was an atlas which opens up all kinds of questions about everything like, you know, we live in a three dimensional world, right? Besides theoretical science, string theory and stuff has gone up to maybe seven. I saw a lot more than that.

And then I got to ask questions.

That seemed profound.

And it was it was really odd because, well, I asked questions that any anyone would ask like, you know, well, why are we born? Hmm. I had never thought of it my age at that time. And I was told that we wanted to use No, we wanted to be born we wanted this earthly life and all that it would bring it was a decision made with our Creator. And I asked about pain and suffering. And it was, you know, basically how we find our spiritual center again. If everything were cushy, Why be born? This is life on earth is not the place for cushy experiences. They could be included, but it's not exclusive. It's you know, back to no atheists in foxholes kind of thing. But yeah, we're, you know, put into the grinder. But the answers I got back, I wasn't learning a thing I was remembering. And if I had had a head I would have flunked it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't like that. And then I was told what no one in that position in the presence of God and love would want to hear about that. I had to go back. So I said, No, I can anyone would. And it was yes, no, yes No, this valets, I'm here to tell you can argue with God. But in God's realm, God will win. Here we have free will. Elsewhere not so much. So I was sent back and then by golly, I had not passed my driver's test, because I couldn't pay a low part within three feet of the curb bootcamp in this I want one of those self parking parallel. Anyway, don't have so couldn't get within three feet of the curb. I've just had the most profound experience possible in my opinion, setback and I miss my body by three feet. my physical body and I turned and I made a joke. It was like, I can't even Park myself.

Brian Smith
So I'm sorry at this point. Are you still in sidewalker You're in the hospital at this point,

Kim Clark Sharp
no stone sidewalk. Okay, okay. Yeah, thank you. Good question. And please help me focus because I get lost in my experience. It's, I can get back in and be there in a heartbeat. And I'm there. So thank you for that. Yeah. Still on the sidewalk. didn't look like the person I remember. But I identified the body as my body but not as myself, which is key to this very moment time. But if the Kim that is Kim was not in that body, what I self identified was not about body. And again, I had eyeballs so what the heck was I watching with? Makes no sense on a physical plane. There it was. And then I thought well know what it was. It wasn't scary or anything. It's just like, no way. And then I saw a man that I didn't recognize, bend over and touch my mouth with his mouth. That was the Good Samaritan. Didn't hear the swearing. But as soon as his mouth touched mine, I went over to above my body and then dropped through that man's body into my own body. Well, as I went through with him, I knew everything he was feeling, and realized that what he was primarily feeling was compassion and compassion as a very strong form of love. Here I just been with the greatest love of all, so it's like a lighthouse. It was my weekend. It was I was following that or following the money. I was following the love and that I was back in my body and it stuck. It was horrible. I was conscious but not conscious. I was conscious of being in my body. I felt like I was running around this cold dark prison. Brian, it's really horrible. It was it was extremely unpleasant. By the way, back to you. My admitting medical records my body temperature when I got to the emergency room was 86. Oh, wow. So that's a pleasant

cool temperature in the summer

Brian Smith
but yeah, that's not for being alive.

Kim Clark Sharp
You know, I was I was No wonder I was cold and running around in the dark. So I called out for God again. I'm such a whiner. So I was whining for God please take me please please I hate your peace. So God showed up again how kind and said all right already, you know and then open a portal or a window like thing to my right. And there was my heaven. And it was so beautiful. It was like a meadow. It was endless VISTA of grass that was you know, blowing and kind of a breeze again, the bomb Enos. Often the distance was kind of a low fence and then some low trees. Frankly, it looked like Kentucky. You wouldn't know what Kentucky looks like because I've lived there for 10 years. You know? Yeah, it Chucky is my heaven. Skeptics say Oh, near death experiences get what they expect. I have yet to visit the great state of Kentucky. Oh, and I've never been there. You gotta go. I've been there before that. You would think that you know, Cincinnati airport is closest I've ever been. Yeah. So you know, Washington, the Kentucky Derby on TV. But I've seen of course many images of Kentucky and I go, that's my heaven Kentucky's my heaven. So the thing about this grass stuff, though, is that I was aware of the consciousness, if you will, of every single blade of grass. Every blade of grass was alive, electrically alive. And the colors were not earthly. The grass was a shade of green I like green look around me when I wear greens like my color. And the green was just it was so intense and the blue sky was way more intense sapphire blue kind of brighter and more vibrant than anything and I loved it. So I was told okay if you cross that border though that's it for you. You're not coming back. So really okay.

Brian Smith
Offer with almost no hesitation. No.

Kim Clark Sharp
I wanted to go to Kentucky. So um i and then got interrupted and said my wait before you make that decision, I will show you something. And then off to my left was this flash of light back in my day. Cameras came with a little when I was a kid with little bulbs that You know, you flash me this bright, blinding light then you gotta lick your fingers and take the hot bulb out to do another picture that kind of a blinding light but again, didn't hurt the eyes that I didn't have in my head but yet was seeing with and I was told that if I chose to live that would be where I live and it was where mountains met water and I knew it was in Kansas, but there was no other information. And I went Okay, thanks and off I'm off to my habit. And before also all the way through again interrupted, like yeah, now what God and I was shown a picture gallery. And they were maybe a dozen of them and they were people that I would be significantly interacting with. Should I choose to live? No, they were strangers. What do I care? Yeah, but the head labels I could meet him like an English best friend next door, neighbor. Kali mentor, I mean, it went on like that. Wow. Yeah. Very, very rare in the near death experience to have a life preview, or our life reviews. But this was a preview. And I didn't care. I'm off. I haven't again, and then again, it's like back. And there was a third big flashlight and I saw myself being of service, something I really hadn't been. And I said, cool. I remember that. So well. Cool. Well, who knew God was a hippie? Cool. It was like an affirmative action item. I guess. It was like, Okay, you've made your decision. I was like, wow. And as I was exiting, so again, on God's terms, God believes I volunteered to come back. I'm gonna go No, you're true. tricked me. God. You got that

On the way out, I heard

a woman's voice calling my name I have no idea what that was about. And then the words that I would forget except as it would be manifest. And I'm glad for that word because it up. And manifest means obvious. So the things were topsy turvy, and I did recover. I've had no cardiac events since then, if that was the case, it was a one time thing. But I didn't know my life anymore. I didn't know who I was I when I knew but I didn't know. I felt like I've been stuffed like into a sausage. It was I felt well. I felt like in the movie, Aladdin. You've had a child. You know, kids, watch movies they like over and over and over and over again. Little girl when she was little loved Aladdin, and in the movie Aladdin, the Disney movie Robin Williams. He's asked what is it like to be a genie? And the genie says, all the powers of the universe. Anybody living space? Yeah, that's what it's like to be for me to be back to come back. Yeah, itty bitty living space, but I feel like our spirits are ginormous. washed into the body. So off I went, and I didn't know where went was. I had a hamster named toto Oh, here comes my favorite metaphor at hamster named toto but total in a birdcage in the front seat of a Volkswagen square back that I bought an offer when I left Kansas. I got To i 70, which at the time was the Tollway, East West Coast. I thought well the mountains of mountains meet water must be to the left and and I began to get scared and I cried. And Oprah Winfrey has what she calls the the ugly cry straighter canines shut. Yeah, it just there's mucus, your mouse and odd shapes, and it's a whaling. And I began to whale and I said, I don't want change. I hate change. I don't want to change went on and on. And then as I approached the toll area, there's a big sign that said, change needed. Oh, wow. Okay, so that's the ride we're going to be on? Yeah, it was and then because of all the mucus The other thing is that I don't, I guess my mom put a box of tissues in the car, but I needed to blow my nose and I looked down and there was a white tissue box that said Kimberly Clark, which was my Name, Kimberly Clark Paper Company, although I'm Kimberly Clark, so it's like, oh, good one. So I've had that relationship with God ever since we will play. So fast forwarding through lots of amazing spiritual experiences that got me finally to Seattle, including actually living on Haight Street in San Francisco at the time of hippies. And I it was startling to me that I actually was living on a street name hate when I had so much love. Yeah,

Brian Smith
so much. Well, I have to ask you, so you said you were in college at the time you had the cardiac arrest if that's what it was. Did you just quit school and just get your van and start driving?

Kim Clark Sharp
No, no, I finished school and bought a car and and then headed out. Yeah, okay. JOHN passed.

But the hippie culture was perfect for me because it was all about Peace and Love at that time in 1970. So that was great. But then no matter where I stopped, and there was, you know, chapter three of the book I wrote, but there were always these events that happen again these amazing spiritual experiences, but I was pushed to go into Seattle. And once I cross that city line is like everything like so in Seattle, where I still live, but the big metaphor is that I left Kansas with toto vashi had a tornado in Hays, Kansas, I had to take shelter, and I wound up living in Seattle, which then is the Emerald City. Yeah. Great. That's why I love the gods job. I just love all the synchronicity and the metaphors and the in jokes. Yeah. My life is observing them and living them. Anyway. So to answer your original question about how do I get into this, you Yeah, it wasn't my near death experience that I'm aware of. But it certainly played a part. again back to her never applied for a job. I went to graduate school, never paid a dime of tuition. Everything was laid out. My own metaphor is that I live on the automatic door opener of the grocery store is open for me and I enter there's a lot of work within those doors, especially in the field of death and dying. Yeah, hard work. Yeah, but I carried a secret weapon. And that was I have no fear of death. And I know that the that we live on, maybe not in human form, but we live on as ourselves after what we call death. But that meant that I was very comforting, as I again was. synchronicity put me into the field of death and dying and into a place called Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, which is again, then as now, trauma center for one fourth of the landmass of the United States. There's a whole lot of death and dying going on. And I work as a social worker on the intensive care unit and coronary care unit in nice places for someone like me to be a comfort. In April of 1977, when I was ambitious, I was in the University of Washington system because harbor view was part of that academic system. I wanted to get promoted, you know, climb the academic ladder, didn't have any idea about the research I want to do. I just everything bored me. One day, she says taking a deep breath though everything changed. And there was a woman in metod named Maria. She came in the night before I was to go on duty again. I work Monday through Friday, but during the day She was unconscious when she was admitted. She was a direct admit to the coronary care unit. The next day when I got there, she was alert. But I needed a translator. I took some Spanish three years of Spanish in high school not enough to do a good workup. And so we needed a translator. We needed some money we needed to find her family. She was actually a migrant worker from the Yakima Valley area about 100 miles east of Seattle, bigger cultural area. And anyway, so you know, as a translator, I worked her up and went on my merry way. And I am so sorry about the phone ringing in the background.

Announcer
We'll get back to grief to growth in just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian is an author and a life coach? If you're grieving or know someone who is grieving his book, grief to growth is a best selling easy to read book that might help you or someone you know people work with. Brian as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at www grief to growth com www dot g ri e f the number two gr o w th comm or text growth gr o wt h 231996. If you'd like to support this podcast visit www.patreon.com slash grief to growth www.paeon.com slash g ri e f number two gr o w th to make a financial contribution. And now back to grief to growth.

Brian Smith
Sorry, happens.

Kim Clark Sharp
I really apologize. The thing is I took the phone and I turned it off. But what's happening is that the bass is ringing

Brian Smith
that happens to me too. I have one in my office I have to unplug the bass from it.

Kim Clark Sharp
I've even turned off myself. I can't believe and it's gonna be a telemarketer because it rang four times and telemarketers hang up. Yeah, exactly. I'm sorry listeners for the.

Brian Smith
It's alright, go ahead. Okay. So you're with Maria.

Kim Clark Sharp
Yeah. So three days after she was admitted I was doing some charting in coronary care unit and a one of the monitors indicated flatlines situation happens all the time in our brigade. I was used to it The staff was used to it. Everybody Thunder down, it was Maria. And she needed to be resuscitated. I stood in the doorway watched a very easy resuscitation. She was stabilized. She was so unconscious, but I went about my day, just before quitting time. I got paged by her nurse saying that Maria was awake and alert but very agitated. They couldn't find the translator Could I come up, they didn't want to slipping back into cardiac arrest. So I did, I couldn't find a translator. So what I'm about to tell you is a goofier interview than was actually accomplished. But first she told me, and now we're talking like pitch and traveler language that she was out of her body. She showed me the quarter that she was in and looked down, and she could see everyone there and the machinery they were using. And one little clue was that she described all the paper on the floor, and indeed, my skeptical response because I was skeptical, because I didn't know what it happened to me. Everything was so mixed up and jumbled. So I had decided now that I was a social worker, and a licensed clinician, that I was crazy. This is like a highly functioning form of schizophrenia. And that was my little dirty secret. In fact, once I went through the emergency room at Harbor view, I had to do that to get My job. And there's a woman that looked a lot like me that was sitting on a gurney and two point restraints, which is the wrist look miserable. And I just said she was so young. And I said, What's the deal with her to one of the residents and he said, oh, we're taking her up to lock inside. she feels like she's been going in and out of her body. That's what? Oh, yeah. So Zipit cam. So from that point on, I didn't even try to speak about it. So now I'm hearing a woman that I've already certified as saying, telling me she was out of her body and, and this paper on the floor stuff was not part of our education. Actually, back then. Cardiac information came out of big wide, wide mouth machines spilled out got kicked into the bed, and then upon recovery or death torn off studied by the cardiology team. Hmm, wouldn't have known that. That she said like that snap of the fingers. she found herself outside Have the entrance to the emergency room. And again, I thought, Man, you know her room is about the entrance to the emergency room and I knew she hadn't gotten out of bed but maybe someone pushed your bed over by the window. ignoring the fact there's a roof over every emergency room entrance because of weather, right? She didn't see the entrance so she couldn't be describing the one way driveway, automatic doors, you know, but again, I'm going then because now you know it was it was getting a little old for me. Then she said she spotted a tennis shoe while she was out and about outside on a ledge. Nowhere she thought she was three or four storeys above the ground and knowing what direction herb reveals a mammoth building. And so she wanted someone to find the shoe and that's why she was agitated. She She knew that She was out there. It wasn't like it was a bad thing. She just wanted someone to bring her the shoe. So I set out to look for it. I failed miserably going around the building. And so I went in the building started out, you know, the luck of the Kim alongside the building. So what I'm describing took some time, but the west side of the building went into a patient's room because the window was blocked by a cart. And so in those situations, actually, they had to go into someone's hospital room by I'm sorry, I'm sorry. They're all my own patients though. And got to this one window and looked down. She had described a dark blue large shoe with a little toe scuffed out and a white lace under the heel.

In case I should get it confused with

like, why

Yeah,

and one might want to know what the heck was one shoe doing on a ledge anyway. I don't know. Yeah, I looked down I saw the shoe. It was dark blue is definitely a man's shoe. I didn't see the little scruffy part because it was outside of my vision. But I could see a white lace coming under. And I almost passed out, I lost the ability to bear my own weight, went forward and bang my head on the glass glass and out loud. I said, this happened to me. I remember seeing my breath momentarily on the glass and it was my watershed moment. So I took the shoe went back to Maria. I mean, I hid it behind my back and said can you tell me about the inside of the shoe and I never saw back. Then I produced it. It was like Viva Zapata. That shoe and back then it's gonna be hard for listeners to understand I really am telling the truth about this but back then, patients actually stayed in the hospital. Until they were well enough to go home.

Yeah, can you

please now but back then, it was in the hospital for three weeks and that shoe sat there like the Shroud of Turin. It received massive amounts of visitors. She seems so authentic. I seem so authentic and there was the shoe. Discharge she gave me the shoe is somewhere in our garage. It's not like she left my life. I followed her as an outpatient for three years. Hmm. So and then I went on leave of absence for a few months, came back never saw her again. And don't know what happened to her. I have no yeah, so that's the shoe. Heard round the world down. It's officially an urban legend. It's described as being black as blue as red. A doctor, a male nurse, a female nurse.

Brian Smith
Yeah, I've heard it as a red shoe.

Kim Clark Sharp
Yeah dark blue shoe. He who found it yeah Harborview Medical Center on alleged number of Yeah. So Kenneth ring did hear from I think was an RN and kinetic consult red shoe on a roof. But that person was never found that she was never found okay to get confused with my own story but it's live here's the horse's mouth It was. It was a shoe I found. Yeah. And still have wow oh yeah so big Wow. And many skeptics have tried to pierce that story none have been successful there's you know and but it's helped me collect skeptical responses yeah Pierce those balloons Easy, easy squeezy but it did give me my research launch and so I began to interview or whatnot interview I already interviewed everybody He was admitted. But I began to add for those people admitted in cardiac arrest the questions. What do you remember when you were dead? Well, basically, it was that one question, but it was couched in three questions. And I got nothing for two months. And then in June of that year, a 16 year old was admitted to the intensive care unit. And that's unusual. Usually the kids went to children's hospital, but anyway, and I asked her, you know, because she had been resuscitated, you know, What do you remember about being dead by then? Nothing. She bounced right back. And like Maria, who stumbled for hours trying to find words of course, Spanish words. Yeah. This this gal said, Oh, I was with my Oprah. And I was like, What? And they didn't know what an oopah was. What turns out was what she called her grandfather before he died. And she just couldn't say Grandpa, she was so young. And he held her and rocker and covered her and then set her back. Wow, this was a suicide attempt. She had taken an overdose of prescription medications barbiturates to be exact. And so he scolded her. But it wasn't like a hellbound thing. He just said that you're you had to get back in the game, kiddo. Yeah. And so she survived. She's also someone I followed for a long time she had mental health issues. She was inpatient for a while outpatient for a while, we still kept in touch. And when she was fully recovered, the two of us would go to high school assemblies in our county, King County and Seattle. And she would talk to kids as a kid about Don't you even think about trying to hurt yourself? Do it. And she was such a reliable source of information. It was fantastic. She's finally aged out of it. Yeah, there you go. And then In 1982, I started the Seattle International Association for near death studies, which was the first group of its kind support group. But the International Association of near death studies or ions for patient.org is just the best. It's still the only organization exclusively addressing near death experiences. And I love the organization, I helped to represent the organization. And because of that, I have met now countless people. So between and then I went into, you know, cancer care. And then I did a year study at Children's Hospital, exclusively interviewing kids who survived cardiac arrest, and those are through drawings and on and on and on. Yeah, there you go data.

Brian Smith
Yeah. So before we started, you told me that you were you have experienced with a teenager that had a heart attack. The near death experience.

Kim Clark Sharp
Yes. So, in Seattle items one day came at the time he was 19. His experience happened at 14 or 15. Um, took him that long to find us. He was a cardiac cripple. He had never run, skip jumped or played ever in his life. He was spent most of his life in bed with you know, breathing problems because of just you know, low cardiac input and was very, very, very, very sick kid used to going in and out of our children's hospital

and was,

had brothers and sisters but everything was centered around him because of his health care needs. So one night, I mean, he knew the drill people one night he had crushing chest pain. And he reached out for help. He couldn't draw a big enough breath. And he knocked over his bedside lamp crash to the floor hoping it would attract attention. It didn't. So he got up out of bed and walked to his sister's bedroom which was the closest bedroom I went into awakened her and reach down to shake her awake but his hand went through her and through the mattress. That's like he was out of body. His case whereas Maria felt like she which is pure mind, wherever she wanted to go, it was again like that. I want to go over there and she's immediately they're all like mental if you will. This guy felt completely physical, but was with invisible Yeah, well, and he couldn't be heard. But he just was screaming anyway to his sister, and somehow that she roused and he somehow was able to reach her. telepathically, if you will. And so she got up and went into his room and he wasn't responsive, called his parents, Muay Thai and they come running. He's still walking around. He is completely with his family. Hmm. fully present. Again. The him That was him wasn't in that body, right. And he was trying to comfort his family. They're waiting for medic, one to come. And he said, I'm here. I'm great. I'm doing a fine. This, this is all good. So um, and then he was out of body in the ambulance, which, so off we go. I have two stories about that. appeal people I've interviewed who have ambulance memories out of body. One of the guys wrote on top they

your life, but

anyway he was so he was there, you know with the medics working on him and going, you know, well this is interesting. And in the hospital, he loses track of his memory but he was told by a loving presence that he also called God, that he was going to be okay. And he was going to be cured of heart disease. Medically, that doesn't make sense. Not the only kid who I've interviewed has had this experience that deadly disease and upon recovery, and a near death experience are completely healed. He was so healed that he got up in front of our group has started doing jumping jacks and showed us his arms which is his veins forearms are still affected by low oxygen. So his veins were different looking than most kids, old year and bluer. And he because he was with God, he decided to turn his life over to God, he became a Christian. His family rejected him entirely because they were not having any of that. He couldn't shut up about Jesus and about God about love and he wanted everybody to know how we're all loved. And, you know, the Bible is the truth and all that efficient. Yeah, so

he is, he is, we were in touch for a long time. We're out of touch now, but

he got older. He doesn't sited to move to Anchorage and open admission for people to preach the word of Jesus. And he had a brother that said, No, I'm with you. I believe you were going together. They both went. The brother actually wound up taking over the successful mission. This is the street ministry. While our hero then applied for the anchorage Fire Department, you don't get into any fire department with cardiac disease. He was that physically fit by then had a career the fire department then decided to go to nursing school and did and became a nurse. Oh, wow. And overtime we just lost track. But that was his story. And yeah, I want to share that because it's interesting.

Brian Smith
It is it's really interesting. I my daughter passed from cardiac disease and we found her Knock morning. And I wonder you know sometimes what she had the room, you know, when when we found her and I think she probably was

Kim Clark Sharp
I put some money on it if I had some money. Yeah, honest I based on that not only a story I told you, but countless, you know, people say, you know, I've interviewed thousands of people I, someone did do a head count in 1994. And it was like a lot then but even more now. So I have lots and lots of stories that would give you pause, and reflection. And I'm going to say, Yeah, she was right with you. I mean, I wasn't there. But again, based on again, so many near death experience stories that I've heard, by the way, I don't hear near death experience stories. I am with that person. I only count them. If I can touch them. If I can hold their hand if I can. Have them sometimes it's been over the phone. Sometimes it's been no, it's never been over the internet. It's either been on the phone, but overwhelmingly in person record look them in the eye. Yeah. And that's a special relationship. So when I say a lot of people, I mean not anyone else's cases not any Oh, I hear tell. Yeah. First and accounts first and accounts. So I would like for you, if you would care to to believe that she was with you out of love. Now Love is the strongest tie that there is in the whole universe. And so she would be very attached

and would love you to this day. Yeah, well, I like that. No way.

Brian Smith
Yeah, I do believe that and I think I was saying earlier I hear from her all the time, usually is through through someone else but I hear for and she says Signs and I mean, just just amazing, overwhelming, crazy signs.

Kim Clark Sharp
I get that I get those from deceased loved ones too. Yeah. So how

Brian Smith
does how does the near death experience how does that affect the process of grief if we're going through grief?

Kim Clark Sharp
Well, good question. So I'm going to answer two problem. One is that it doesn't in one sense, because if we love somebody and we lose them to death, we're gonna miss them. Elisabeth Kubler Ross Actually, I'm name dropping. Do you know who she is? I do. Yes. Yeah. She was a friend. We work together. She loved me and bless me tremendously with her work. And she came out with these five stages of loss. Wish it wished by the way she hadn't done because it wasn't a recipe. You know? Yeah, like stages. And then also, there was a stage that she would have added. And that would be the last stage, which was the stage of yearning. Mm hmm. And that never goes away. As long as we love someone we yearn to hear from them. We are to see them again. Yeah, we miss them. The near death experience does not diminish that yearning. Right. And that the agony of loss, but you know, here's the deal, Brian. This is where the hugs are. This is this is one of the things our bodies do well, we hug. Yeah, we do some other things as well, like eat and run and play and laugh and all that. But the hugs are here. That ends when we shed this physical body. Yeah. So on that level, near death experiences don't matter. But on a spiritual level, it's all good. Because we don't, we can't see our loved ones. But that doesn't mean they're not with us. And it doesn't mean that they're not going to be greeting us. Yeah, that headcount I told you about a few minutes ago. Yeah. That was actually a physician in Miami, Florida. She studied my own caseload and determined that 3% of my caseload at that time again 1994 people have gone through a tunnel so actually not very common 10% of seen a light again, not all that common. 13% had scary experiences. That's a very high level of reportage. But I was my sub areas of expertise under the banner of near death experiences, our children's experiences suicide attempts and scary experiences. So I talked to a disproportionate number of people who fall into those categories. But the reunion with deceased loved ones Was it 75% statistically, it might as well be 100. That's a huge, huge number. And the people that were being greeted as they were having a near death experience, were greeted by just love. Sometimes it was deceased loved ones, sometimes by a religious figure, sometimes by what I call God, but they were greeted and welcomed and loved. But where the near death experience really bangs home the the grief topic is that our loved ones are always with us if they choose to be and they are there with their own heavenly arms out Waiting for us. And

that brings me comfort.

Brian Smith
Yeah, you know it, we were saying that I was thinking I work with people that have gone through grief. So that's part of my part of the work that I do. And sometimes people will ask, Well, when will the grief and you know mumble will be over what can I go back to normal? I'm like, well, it never ends. And I don't want my grief to ever end because it's the yearning thing that you talked about. I still, it'll be five years in June since Shayna passed. And I still yearn for her. And I always want to have that I don't want to lose that. There's there's two sides of as you said, there's there's the human side of it, where we miss them, and we long for them and that's fine. That's okay. But there's there is a great comfort in knowing that I will see her again. And not only that, but she's still with me. So we could carry both of these things at the same time. And you know, sometimes we're going to miss them. We're going to have those, those grief moments. There's those maybe even better days where we feel like you know, I just can't do this anymore, whatever. But for me, there's always that light at the end of the tunnel. There's always that that I'm looking forward so I don't I look at my life now is moving towards her, you know, for a while it was like when she's only 15 when she passed, so I'm like, I'm not going to see her for the rest of my life. And I felt like I was moving away from her and losing those memories and stuff. And now I don't I look at it more like I'm looking forward to seeing her again. So that's the way that I find it works for me.

Kim Clark Sharp
And I cross my heart. I promise you, you will. It's uh, you know, it's cool. Um, you will probably be very old when you die, kind of myself. But when we're greeted by loved ones. They all appear like at their peak. If someone is very old, they appear to be in Their 20s if someone is very young, they still are kind of like in their 20s like in their peak physical existence. Now maybe that's not what they really are on the other side, I haven't ever been dead dead. And I've never interviewed a corpse and I don't want to. Yeah, so I only know about the threshold experiences the the U turns. But we are known though by like our energy. I mean, we can you know, it's more than just a visual, although when people are greeted by loved ones. It is a physical recognition. Even though in the case of like grandparents, they didn't look like that. Yeah, then they died, but yet they're still known. And by the way, it's not just humans. It's also pets. Yeah, cats and dogs and fishes and donkeys and horses. I got a lot I do a whole lecture on animals in the afterlife because a lot of people don't have loved ones especially kids, but they have maybe a deceased pet. And, and even adults. I'm not kidding with a goldfish. But yeah, that we are greeted by loved ones. Some of them might have four legs for or feathers or fins. Yeah, and loved ones nonetheless.

Brian Smith
Well on some of those loved ones, you know, the pets are I mean they they are as close to us as humans are and people that don't have pets, you know, can understand that. But you know, for some of us, you know, as pets are closer than any human Bible, right because it's it's unconditional love.

Kim Clark Sharp
Exactly. And again, Brian, it's all about love. Mm hmm. It just all boils down to that we were made with love. why some people stuff for on this earth again. I have to just turn it over to God. I Don't get it even though it's told Why, why some people are cruel. You know, social workers that don't get me started on bat I have very strong opinions. And I'm a martyr and I'm protester you know I do what I can to right the wrongs I don't understand hatred. I don't understand dictatorships and the Holocaust in a way the whole, you know,

cruelty that we can do to each other. I just don't get it.

But I can do what I can as a loving person and do my one little human being bit to rectify damage, and there's endless opportunities for that. Yeah. Oh, that's part of my being of service. I was sent back to serve. So there you go. I it feeds my soul. And, and I know it pleases God because I'm blessed.

Brian Smith
Yeah, I think we all wrestle with that, that theodicy question? You know, if there's a loving God, then why there? Why is there evil in the world? And we can, you know, there there are some answers, you know, it gives us something to you couldn't serve if there weren't a need for example.

Kim Clark Sharp
So, exactly there's a point

Brian Smith
yeah. Yeah, there's there's no opportunity if there's no need. So, there has to be there has to be some lack something and, and so then it just becomes a matter of degrees, right. So because if we if we allow for the fact there has to be something here for us to push back against, for us to overcome, to grow stronger than people so the why, why is it this bad and what I what I say to people as well, bad is relative because as we all know, and as you know, better than anybody, this is temporary, you know, this is this is just something that we're passing through. It seems really, really bad while we're in it, and it seems like it's gonna last forever. But nothing lasts forever. And we're we're back on the other side, I think we looked at this and guy, it wasn't that bad. We kind of forget how bad it was. And we were here.

Kim Clark Sharp
It's like childbirth. You know, the pain of that, but any woman has given birth knows what pain is. But then we we forget about it enough to go. I think I'll do it again. Yeah. And you know, I'm not a Buddhist, but I can see that where we want to jump back into life and, and have another go at it. I don't know. I you know, I'm so grateful. I'm not God. I don't have to even think about it.

Brian Smith
Well, you know, it's funny. I think it my daughter, Shana, and we love video games. And the thing is, if you're if you're a game designer, you have to design a game that's hard enough that it presents a challenge, but it's got to be easy enough that people get some success. So there's always this balance when you're designing a game to make it interesting, but to be interesting, it's got to be challenging and I think that's kind of the way this life was designed. We, I think we come in and we we build these challenges for ourselves to say, Yeah, okay, let me see if I could do that and see if I can, if I can overcome that, and maybe sometimes it bite off more than we can chew or. But I think, I think once it's over, we kind of said, you know, that was tough, but I got through it. And if you think about the things in life that you get the most out of, they're the things that presented the biggest challenges to you. Those are the things that the most satisfying. Yeah.

Kim Clark Sharp
And now a lot of metaphors on this subject, too. And I'm grateful, even though I don't like the challenges I've had, and I've, you know, in the balance of things, again, you haven't read the book era, but I've had some astonishing losses and, and challenges. I have two metaphors, I guess. One is that it helps me increase my spiritual musculature stronger for it. There's no question. And it's it My, my, actually, the metaphor I use the most is a bouncing ball, I'm slammed down, but like a good bouncy ball and you bounce up higher. And so I keep bouncing higher and higher and higher. But what I'm really grateful for is that, again, back to being in service, I can turn to people in pain or grief, and say, I know how you feel. Yeah. And the person I'm speaking with knows that I know how you feel. You can't fake that. I really can bring it right because I've been through it. And I wouldn't trade that for anything. So now when awful things happen to me, what helps me pull out of it is like, okay, there's a population of people now, that I can also serve Right. Yeah, I haven't spoken with him yet, but got my first COVID near death experience or this will date your broadcasts were in a pandemic. And I got a call last week from a healthcare provider from one of our coven hospitals, and we've had a near death, beautiful near death experience. So we'll be hearing more of those and more opportunities to be of comfort and to guide those people into comforting others because it's all a ripple effect. Right, right. Yeah, it's got to be right.

Brian Smith
And that's what we have to look at this things there are opportunities through opportunities for us to grow and you said to build compassion and but other people go through that there's an opportunity for us to serve so I guess maybe for now, we have to take it on faith that it serves a higher purpose but I've heard enough there to that's experiences to believe that it does. And remember I was talking with a woman Heidi Craig, the head on and she said she learned three things. One is everything. We'll be okay. everything is as it should be. And we are loved beyond anything that we can imagine. And so I remember her saying those three things I'm like, if we can keep those three things in mind, we can endure anything. And and she's been through some crazy stuff, you know. So for someone, it's like she's a lot of charm life beads, if someone like charm likes to say, Oh, yeah, everything's the way it's supposed to be. But, you know, she's been through a lot of abuse that was very serious. And she still says, Yeah, I believe this was all meant to be.

Kim Clark Sharp
So I would as a near death experience, or completely agree. And also no one's asking for my advice, but here it comes. Just be nice to everybody. Just be nice. Nothing else. There's the life review waiting. I planned to have a doozy you know, maybe that erases everything because I'm doing it so I'll have a good life review. I don't know. But um, We are held accountable eventually. And I want when I do die, God to go

well done.

Brian Smith
Yeah, but it's a life review. Is God judging you in life reviewers? Are you judging yourself? Oh, okay, well

Kim Clark Sharp
now here we go for another hour.

In my experience, I'm only talking about my experience. So if there are listeners to go I've heard that before or I heard so so say something different. That's fine. This is just me. The life review comes in two different flavors if you will. One is

where we are shown the

our crops so to speak, and Bible says by my fruits they shall be known. were shown our fruits Some of them are awful. Some of them are wonderful. But we're shown our choices. And one fellow I talked to, I've got so many stories, my head's gonna explode. One fellow, though, was sitting in a big share with a bundle of like cables bound on his lap. But the cables went out in all directions. And at the end were words that he could read. And they were like, military, marriage, children, college choices, you know, more choices, and he could make in a lifetime. And he was shown the choices that he didn't make consciously or unconsciously, and the repercussions and how it was like connecting the dots. So because you chose to do this, that led to this, which led to that. Remember, when you broke your leg? Well, you married your nurse, you know, that just all that kind of connectedness. So that's not a judgment. It's like a life observation. If you will, okay. Another life review is the old judgment but it doesn't come from God, or even exactly from oneself. It's when people are put in the experience from the perspective of the person whose life they've touched, again, for the positive or the not so positive. So I'm going to use the name Tom Sawyer, easy to remember now to Cece but Tom Sawyer was quite the guy and a good friend, and he had a near death experience that was very prolonged, very interesting, amazing, in fact, but he was hot tempered guy who expressed that temper, physically and emotionally to his family, his sons and his life. He was brutal. I would say God crushed working on his car in the driveway jack broke crushes. During him. Lots of things happen. So this mean abuser, he would not mind if I said that about him that left him. But he in his life review was in the position of his wife of his children as they were being abused down to itty bitty little details that he really doesn't even remember. He found himself in an idling car. And he looked in the sideview mirror and saw Tom Sawyer approaching the car very angry looking well in in his life. Tom had he was a rage driver to what you know, road rage we call it now in like the driving of the car in front of them when they came to a light. Tom got out of his car. He marched over there and grabbed the guy. Like this question a roundhouse assaulted him. Wow. Okay. Tom is having a life review. And he sees himself coming towards now the perspective of the man. And he felt the blow, the fear, the confusion, the pain of it all. So that isn't judgment from God. That's that from the perspective of lives we have touched, that also goes in the other direction whether we know it or not. One woman, oh my gosh, she had a she had a life review where she had no idea doesn't even happen. She was driving it was a dark and stormy night, and she has no memory of this but she found herself in the perspective of a woman driving behind her car. She recognized her own car. This one was lost. It was using the taillights of its near death experiencer to not get no road up to northbound interstate five Which is where she wanted to go near death experience or had no knowledge of this, but she got the she got the credit for it. She got to feel this woman's relief and and happiness at being found if you will after being lost and in dark and nasty weather. Oh, that's one of me. I mean, I have so many live review stories. It's ridiculous it gets back to be nice to everybody. Yeah, that you get to, to know whether whether you remember the exchange or not how good someone felt because you existed?

Brian Smith
Yeah. Well, I you know, you mentioned earlier, I look at it as like planting seeds, you know, like, like he's, so it's like you plant the seed here. You may or may not see it grow while you're here, but have faith that you're planting seeds. And Jesus said store up treasures you know, in heaven. That's what your heart is, right? So that's the way we can send things ahead to ourselves. We could we could send these gifts ahead to ourselves while we're here. So that's, that's a that's another way of looking at it, but it comes down to be nice to everybody. You know, you can't go wrong with that.

Kim Clark Sharp
Yeah, pretty simple. Yeah. Um

Yeah, that's, I can't add anything to that be nice.

Brian Smith
So Kim, tell me more about your book.

Kim Clark Sharp
I'm lousy at self promotion. So thank you.

Again, like everything. I didn't want to write a book. In fact, I hate writing. I get the book. Actually, it's in the Library of Congress and won a writing award. It was the alternate book of the month for the literary Guild of the United States in Canada. So I you know, I got a big check for writing Well, yeah, it's in its fourth edition. It's called after the light figure. The first chapter is the story of the shoe on the ledge. Okay, chapter is my near death. Experience third chapter is getting to Seattle, which is like crazy. And then we haven't even touched on that. But the fourth chapter is when, you know, I began visions of not only what we call angels, and I'm big on angels, that's another interview, by the way, we'll

Brian Smith
have to do that. But I'm interested in that. Yeah,

Kim Clark Sharp
also scary stuff. So chapter four is a scary stuff. But I began to see some scary stuff and lots of angels around my patients around people, concerts and libraries of school houses, Oh, my gosh, they're all over the place. So I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I was pregnant, and I had eight to 10 months to live. As long as I remain pregnant and I chose to remain pregnant. This is how I understand the grief of a parent that the book Dedicated to David Eugene sharp net with David, try to imagine on delivery he did not survive. Oh, but I could do something with that loss too. Yeah. And put it in this book. So all of that is in there too. Can I hear more from parents than any other population? Because so that's in the book. So because I had, you know, not that long to live. I thought I better get all this stuff down. Yeah, I got it all down. And I did survive and through no means in my own. I never was ambitious about writing a book. But it was just thrust upon me. You got to do this and lots of synchronicities. And it became a book it went to auction in New York City, which unknown authors. That doesn't happen to a god. well paid and it it. It allows me to not be present but to still serve And bring comfort to people. So and I've never chased the money, which drives my husband nuts because he'd like for me to do a little money chasing, but it's a good provider loves me. Yeah, I, you know, I annoy him frequently because I'm just not in it for the money. So that's part of my false modesty. I guess I'm proud of the book. I want people to read the book, but I'm not selling it. You know, I mean, has been purchased, because you got it on Amazon or to Barnes and Noble to get it but yeah, well, it's nice and I know it.

Brian Smith
Yeah. It sounds like a fascinating book. So let's make sure everybody knows what it is. It's after the light the spiritual path, the purpose by Kimberly Clark sharp and you said it's available. Amazon Barnes and Noble, I guess, anywhere fine. books are sold. It sounds nicer. Yeah, you'll have to come back. We'll have to talk about angels. I don't. We'll talk about scary stuff too. I guess I don't I don't know how like to stick more to the white stuff, but we'll talk about what the scary stuff.

Kim Clark Sharp
scary stuff leads to the light stuff. Yeah, percent of the time. It's back to the white knuckle writer being alive.

Brian Smith
Yeah. And I guess it all depends on how you look at it.

Kim Clark Sharp
Yeah, I look at it fearlessly.

Brian Smith
Yeah. Okay. It's been fascinating talking to you. I really appreciate you doing the interview.

Kim Clark Sharp
And Bless you. I mean that with my whole heart, bless you bless the work that you're doing, Brian.

God is pleased with you, as well as me. Yeah, you're at your intention.

Brian Smith
Well, thanks. I appreciate that very much. I love bringing these stories to to the to the listeners to hopefully inspire you know, you mentioned Kenneth ring. And I know he did a lot of work that people who studied near death experiences can get some of the same benefits that near death experiencers have without going through the trauma. So that's why I love having people want to have near death experiences. As a

Kim Clark Sharp
kid rain was In that gallery that I saw, oh, real head. Wow. Yeah. Well, we were bound to be friends.

Brian Smith
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we'll definitely do this again. I'd love it. All right. Well, you have a great afternoon.

Kim Clark Sharp
So you as well, Brian, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm honored.

Brian Smith
All right. Thank you. Goodbye. Well, I hope you enjoyed the episode, I want to make it really easy for you to reach me. So just send me a text 231996 and simply text the word growth. gr o w th. In fact you can right now just say hey Siri, send a message. 231996. And when Siri asked you what you want to send, just say growth. You can do the same thing with Ok, Google. Thanks a lot. Have a wonderful day.

Announcer
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