On Second Thought Maybe I Can - Debbie Weiss EP 419

Brian Smith  0:00  
Close your eyes and imagine. What if the things in life that cause us the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed. We've been planted, and having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree. Now open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth, and I am your host, Brian Smith, Hey there. Welcome to grief to growth. I'm your host, Brian Smith, and whether this is your first time tuning in, or you're a long time listener, I'm so glad that you're here. The show is about navigating the toughest parts of life, like grief and loss and personal transformation while we explore the bigger questions of who we are, why we're here, and where we're going today, we have a truly inspiring guest with us. Her name is Debbie Weiss. Debbie is someone who knows what it's like to face life's toughest challenges and still chase your dreams with over 60 years of experience and resilience and reinvention, she'll live through caregiving, grief and personal transformation, emerging stronger and more determined than ever. She is the best selling author of On second thought, maybe I can. I love that title. And co author of the Amazon bestseller heart whispers her latest book, The sprinkle effect, a guide to living a more colorful and fulfilling life, is all about breaking free from limitations and embracing a brighter future beyond writing. Debbie is a can filled certified trainer and success principles, an entrepreneur and an inspirational speaker, a dedicated family caregiver and the host of the maybe I can podcast. So in today's conversation, we're going to dive deep into the unique challenges of being a caregiver, whether it's for a spouse, a parent or a child. We talk about how anticipatory grief affects us before our loved ones even pass. We'll talk about the guilt and emotional complexity that can follow after loss. We talk about her writing her memoir while her husband was dying, and it became an unexpected lifeline. We talk about the power of resilience and shifting from a victim mentality to a mindset of possibility. So Debbie's journey is proof that even in the darkest moments, there's still room for hope, for healing and for growth. So if you've ever felt stuck or in Greek and stuck in grief or wondered how to move forward, you really won't want to miss this conversation. So without like the welcome to the podcast. Debbie Weiss, Oh

Debbie Weiss  2:44  
Brian, thank you so much for having me. And just listening to that introduction is like, Oh yeah, wow. I did do that, and that has been my life.

Brian Smith  2:52  
Yeah, absolutely I again, I said, was I love the title? I love the title of both your books, but I really like the title. You know, maybe I can, because I think we all, we've hit that point right when we go through something so devastating that we couldn't even imagine that it could happen, and then we get through it. So tell us about, first of all, I always like to start off. Tell us about your loved one. Tell us about your

Debbie Weiss  3:15  
husband. So my husband, Gary, he passed away a little over two years ago now, and you know, we were married for almost 30 years. We worked together for over 20 years. And so we were, you know, together 24/7 and just like any couple, we've certainly been through our ups and downs and the last several years of his life, he really struggled with mental illness, besides a lot of different types of physical illness. And even though his passing was expected, because six months prior, he had received out of the blue unrelated to any of his other physical problems. He had received a terminal blood cancer diagnosis. Even when you think you're prepared, you're not. Yeah, yeah.

Brian Smith  4:12  
So you were together for quite a while. You said you worked together. 24/7, what was, what was the business you were doing?

Debbie Weiss  4:18  
So I am an insurance agent. I have my own insurance agency. And he and I came from two completely separate fields and careers. We were only married for a year. We moved from New York to New Jersey, and even though it's neighboring states where we lived in Long Island and where we moved to in New Jersey as a part of New Jersey that's much more rural than what we were used to. So we kind of turned our lives upside down, and then opened up this agency where we had no clue what we were doing, no clue. And the first two years he probably. Quit, or I fired him about six times, because, you know, our marriage was more important, and the stress of everything, you know, there were, everything was new, everything we had no idea what the heck we were doing. We had quotas over our heads. Life was extremely stressful, and we didn't know how to work together, you know. And in the end, we figured it out. We we would each say, go to go to your room. We had, you know, each had our own offices on, I mean, it was a small office, but on opposite sides of our main office. And, you know, that's what it was, go to your room, and eventually we figured out each of our own niches in the business. And so that worked out. You know, we did. We did have our moments, but it worked out, and it wound up to be the best thing that we ever did, because, because we made that move, I and I will get to it, but I was a caregiver to my dad for 30 years. Oh, wow. And then our oldest son, when he was born at two, was diagnosed on the autism spectrum, so it gave us the freedom to be there for our family members, okay, you know, and not have the regular boss or schedule, you know, hanging over your head,

Brian Smith  6:34  
right? So you're the character, character for your father as well as your your son. I don't know how much, how much care he needed, because the spectrum is pretty broad, exactly.

Debbie Weiss  6:43  
So, yes, my father had a massive stroke at 45 the day after I graduated from high school. He survived, thankfully, but he was permanently disabled. He lost the use of his left arm, and he was paralyzed, but did learn for a while to be able to walk with a four prong cane, but could never work again. And at the time he had the stroke, my parents had been having marital problems, and so once my dad had gone through the first couple of years after the stroke. And, you know, medicine was a lot different. This was 1981 so a lot different than it is today. My mother made the decision to get divorced, and so then that kind of made me in charge, and I don't think that's what she intended, especially at such a young age. I have one brother who's four years younger, so at the time, I was 17 when my father had the stroke, he's 13, and when I really stepped in full time to his role of caregiver, it was right after I graduated college. So I was 21 and even though he never lived with me, everything about his life was my responsibility, his health care, his finances were which were an issue where he lived, you know, bringing him food, even though he lived in facilities where there were meals, but you know, you still had to stock a kitchen, just anything and every transportation, anything and everything that you can think of. I was his, his lifeline, and it was an awful lot to be in your early 20s, and I don't want to say be saddled with that, because I did not feel that way initially, but it was, it was very different than what we're going on in my my friends lives, right?

Brian Smith  8:48  
Well, you know, I understand a little bit about that, because my wife was a caregiver for her mother, but we were in our 50s at the time and and, you know, our kids were out of the house pretty much stuff, you know, stuff like that. So at that early of an age and for that long a period of time, and you said you didn't want to feel be saddled with that initially, but I know being a caregiver for someone can wear on you over over time. So what was that like for you?

Debbie Weiss  9:17  
Oh, yeah, I think initially I almost was proud that I was doing this for my dad. You know, I was daddy's little girl. He was, you know, everything to me. And as a child, I lacked self confidence. I would never speak up. I was afraid of being judged. I've always struggled with my weight, and so from a very early age, it was obvious that I was being judged by adults and kids alike. And so I was always trying to hide myself, but when I had to step into the role of caregiver, I could not let my dad down because. Of my insecurities, so I had to learn to advocate on his behalf. Yeah, so it, it really was the start of me becoming who I am today. So initially it was a bit empowering, but over time, it was draining and it wore on me, and I lost patience with him. And I did. I felt like, Why me? I felt I had definitely had such a victim mentality. Why is this my burden? Why is this, you know, my life, really? Because when, like, when we moved to New Jersey. Well, I had to figure out where was my dad going to go? For a while. He stayed on Long Island, and I commuted back and forth to see him. But that long, you know, long term, was not a solution. And back in those days, the type of he was living in an independent facility at the time, and those types of facilities were very few and far between, not like today, where there are a lot more of them. So it was, it was very, very difficult over time. I I resented it. I mean, I knew it wasn't his fault. Obviously, he didn't want to have a stroke. He didn't, you know, want me to have this burden, but I did. I grew to resent it, and, you know, the more I got into my life with other pressures and stresses that come with life, this was just one more thing that really just weighed me down, and I was just in, I think, automatic pilot mode, and just kind of getting up every day, trudging through, doing what I had to figuring out, okay, what do I need for my dad? What do I need for the office, what do I need for the kids? What do you know? What do I need for everyone? And just dropping into bed every day, you know, every night, and just ruminating over, oh, gosh, what is going to you know, What's tomorrow going to bring?

Brian Smith  12:06  
Yes and, and you've been a caregiver for both a parent, a spouse and a child. Did you ever think like, wow? And I think you just kind of said this, why me? Why? Why do I have to keep going through this? I would imagine that would be overwhelming.

Debbie Weiss  12:27  
It was. And even my my friends, you know, I used to think, okay, it's just me. But my friends would call me and be like, Okay, what happened today? What's the story, you know? And they would kind of like validate that, yes, your life is more burdened, more difficult than ours, and not that there should be a comparison game. Because, believe me, I know I could find millions and millions of people, right? What is that if you put all your problems and you know, you'd always pick your own so I am not saying that. I'm just I'm just saying that in my little circle, it felt like every day with in my life was was some kind of mini disaster, problem, fire that I needed to put out on a regular basis.

Brian Smith  13:23  
Yeah? Well, you know, it's interesting. We say things like, we're not supposed to compare griefs. And, you know, we all know that intellectually, that's probably true, but we can look at certain people's lives and say, yeah, that seems to be a lot. You know, I someone, I've talked to, someone who's like, they lost a child, they went through a divorce, the house burned down, like twice. I mean, we, yeah, and I, because of what I do, I talk to people that go through some of the extremes and so but what we can learn from looking people to go through the streams is that we all, we all have troubles. As you said, we all have we all have burdens. And we can't really necessarily directly compare them. But what we can do is we can learn again, from from people that are there are examples that are going through this from different levels. And so what can people because I know you talk about shifting from a victim mindset to a possibility mindset. How does that work? How do how do we do that?

Debbie Weiss  14:21  
Good question. I didn't even know what mindset or the whole concept of that meant. And when I, when I turned 50, my my dad had passed away about a year before, and and let me just say that my my oldest son. So I have two sons, my oldest son that was diagnosed on the spectrum. He is, you know, the term high functioning. He actually, now, years later, they said he wasn't on the spectrum. But he has all these other diagnosis diagnoses. He has mental illness diagnos, like in my mind, I don't care what you call it, I don't care what acronym. I don't care what the letter. Are. It's really, you know how it presents. And now he's almost 24 I had my children late in life. That was another, another whole little mini saga, but at the time, you know he still is. It's a constant worry. It's a constant battle. So just like, Autism is a spectrum, because I have a friend who has a severely autistic child, and her what she goes through and what I go they're completely different. You know, my son was, you know, mainstreamed, but that brought a lot of bullying, a lot of oh, just, just so much. And so at the time, when I turned 50, my son was probably, oh, I don't know, 13 maybe. And you know, I also, like I said, I have a younger son. And you know, all parents know what it's like to just, I don't want to say just be a parent, but that alone, right? I mean, you're giving yourself over, usually, to to your children, your time and your energy and all of that. So anyhow, when I turned 50, I was definitely in the thick of it, even though my dad had passed away, and my friend said, Oh, we are going away for a weekend to celebrate your birthday. I said, Go away. I can't leave. I can't leave. These people, they're not going to know what to do for 48 hours without me. You know, I was like, you know, the air traffic controller, every morning I tell everyone where they need to go, and I'd have to text them and remind them they all had ADHD and like, you know, what are they going to do without me? And they insisted, because I have wonderful friends, and we went away for a weekend to Bermuda, and it was, and still is, the best 48 hours that I've ever had in my life, because it was the first time, and I didn't realize it until then in my adult life, that the only person I had to worry about was myself. And when someone said, What do you want to do for dinner, or what do you want to do tomorrow, I was like, looking over my shoulder, like, are they talking to me? I don't even know what I want. And through all the laughter and the conversation, I realized I had no idea who I was. I want to say I lost myself, but I never had a chance to find myself, because from such a young age, I was dealing with everybody else's issues and lives instead of my own. I was just really there for everyone else, and I had never shown up for myself. I didn't know what showing up for myself looked like. I had no idea. I just know that when I came back from that trip, I really started thinking about my mortality, and it was something about the number 50, and how could I have gotten here so quickly? Because, you know, as you get older, it goes by faster. Yeah, and I didn't want to be that person who got to the end of their lives and looked back with that regret of what I didn't do, what I didn't have the courage to try, and I didn't know I was always a scaredy cat, and kind of still am. I think of myself that way. So I had no idea what that was. I never wanted to write a book. I never wanted to. I don't know I had no I hate to say it, I had no specific aspirations or dreams. So I didn't know what that meant. But that kind of started my journey, which I'm still on and will be on for the rest of my life of figuring out, well, what do I want, and how do I make that happen? Yeah,

Brian Smith  19:09  
and then, so how do you balance that I love, I appreciate you sharing that you know, because that like, Okay, I'm living for everybody else. And you go, when you have this, this, like, magical weekend, you realize you can live for yourself, but you still have got these caregiving responsibilities. So how do you balance those things?

Debbie Weiss  19:27  
You have to make yourself a priority. And that is when I really learned that self care is not selfish. I thought, like many of us, the myth that it is selfish. You know, how can I worry about myself when I've got everybody else to worry about? And when I came back, I said, All right, the first thing I'm going to do is prioritize my health, because if I don't do that, then I'm not going to get to have the chance to figure all these things out, right? This is affecting my longevity. 80 and so, like I said earlier, I've always had an issue with my weight. I have gained and lost, you know, just like everybody who's had that, 1000 pounds, a million times, done all the things, blah, blah, blah. And I said, You know what, I'm gonna go back to Weight Watchers for the umpteenth time, because I've tried every diet, and for me, that was the most realistic. But this time, and I didn't know that I was I didn't consciously know that I was doing something, I just thought to myself, well, let's see how has this worked for you in the past? Not so well. Yeah, I've lost but then I gain it back. The second that I go off, I gotta do something different. And I thought to myself, instead of doing what I always do, which is say to myself, Okay, I'm joining now. In three months, I want to lose 25 pounds, and by the summer and by my birthday, and kind of like, if I don't hit those benchmarks, it was a failure. Or every week that you go to get weighed, you can't believe it. I was so good this week, and I gained a pound. I might as well just throw in the towel. I said, You know what? It doesn't matter how long it takes, because I'm never getting off this some version of paying attention, right, of being aware. So if it takes 10 years to lose 100 pounds, which is what I needed to lose at that time, it doesn't matter. And I have to forget the perfectionist and I have to forget the due dates and all of those things. And I was changing my mindset, but I didn't know that it had a name, right? And so I just started small, because I wasn't really feeling like dieting, to be honest. And I just said My goal is to show up to a Weight Watchers meeting, because everything was in person. Then every week, that's it. No other goal, no other What am I going to eat? What's my exercise? How much water? All the other things. I don't care. I'm just going to go. Because just going was a big deal, because it's hard to go when you're not losing because it's embarrassing to get on a scale in front of somebody. But I didn't care. And that's what I did for a couple of months. And then after that, I added another little thing and another little thing, and three years later, even maybe a little more, I had lost 90 pounds, and that was about eight years ago. Wow. And so for the first time in my life I've, yeah, I've fluctuated a little bit, but I've been able to maintain that weight loss for the most part. And that's the first time my life that that ever happened. And when I realized, okay, look, that kind of worked. Let me see where else I can apply this idea? And then I started to listen to podcasts. And I listened to a woman who had lost weight, and she had also been in financial difficulty, which I was in, and she got out of that, and I started listening to her, and I remember I took a leap and spent like, $1,200 which was ridiculous when I didn't have any money to take one of her courses, and I thought she's going to give me the answers that $1,200 is going to be the best $1,200 because she's going to tell me what to do and how to maintain this weight loss and how to get out of debt and make my life Wonderful. And when I started the course, I'm like, annoyed because she's not telling me. She's asking me questions that I should be asking of myself. This was a group course. I'm saying she's asking me, but you know, it was, it was recorded video thing. I wasn't having a personal conversation with her. And it took me a while, and took me a while to kind of get rid of my annoyance, because having that buyer's regret, like, oh my gosh, I needed that $1,200 to realize that she was just giving me the tools that every, every change, every everything had to be unique to me. And I had to answer those questions, because her answer and your answer and each of our answers would be different. And that's when I started to and I always hated the term do the work, but I don't know how else to say it. That's what I did. I started really trying to understand myself. You know, I remember one of the things that I found so overwhelming was describe your perfect day, my perfect day. I don't know, what's your perfect life. I don't know. I never thought about that. I like I said I had no particular dreams, and when I started to explore that, it kind of like. Opened up a possibility of and this, this actually is not why I named my book that this, but it was like, Well, wait a second, maybe, maybe I can, maybe I can have this life. And for me, I have a I'm a CPA. That was my first career. Like I was a little black and white thinker. I thought, okay, now I get it. I didn't know what direction I was moving in, so I wasn't moving in any direction. If I can say, this is the life I desire. Here's where I am today. Now I just have to figure out what steps do I need to take to get from A to B, and for me, in the way I thought, that gave me a lot of clarity and and that's really how my whole journey has begun. Yeah,

Brian Smith  25:50  
that's awesome. Thanks for, thanks for sharing that. And, you know, it's funny, we hesitate to say things like doing the work, because we don't want to, we don't want to feel like life is work, but it is, it is work, it is, it is a process. It's a practice, it's a mindset. You know, however you want to term it. And you know, it's really interesting, because as you're telling that I'm like, You're we look for answers outside of ourselves with like, we'll go to we'll go find an expert, we'll go find a guru, we'll go find a program, we'll go find whatever. But as I've been doing this work myself, I realized that I don't have the answers for my clients. The answers, what we can do is help them pull the answers out for themselves, ask some of those questions that we don't we never, may ask of ourselves otherwise, like, what's a perfect day for me? Now you said that that wasn't why you named your book. Maybe I can so why did you name your book that?

Debbie Weiss  26:42  
Yeah, so it's on second thought, maybe I can. And the reason is, like I said, I've been a scaredy cat all my life, so I would not really like to take any risk. And so I'm not just talking about being afraid of monsters under my bed and spiders and all those normal things. If someone said to me, why don't we do? You want to learn to ski? No, no, I can't do that. You want to learn to you know, I don't know. Do scrapbooking? No, I'm not creative. No, I'm not crafty. No, no, can't do that. Can't do that. And so for anything, that was always my response, and what I've realized in this journey is, well, wait a second, that still might be my first reaction. But if I take a step back and say On second thought, maybe I can do that like I'm not going to know if I can do that until I try and for the record, I cannot ski, and I'm okay with that, but now I know, right? And this is how I began to discover things about myself that I had no idea existed because I never allowed myself to take the next step. It was always like, you know, it's fear, it was a protection mechanism. I'll just stay in my little box of comfort, and I'm good. And, you know, I've now learned that living is stepping out of that comfort zone, even though it is so darn hard, and it's still hard, but I've seen that that's where you get the growth. That's where you discover that you can write a book that you never even dreamt in a million years, that you would do or you wanted to do, and that's only because I said, Well, wait a second, maybe I can. Who knows? I don't know if I don't try, yeah,

Brian Smith  28:42  
yeah. Well, you know, it's funny, life is, life is a risk, you know? And I'm a very risk averse person, honestly, your CPA, I'm an engineer, and so we want to manage the risks, and we want to say, you know, I don't want to do that, because something bad might happen. And and it's, you know, other people, some people have personally, it's like, yeah, let's just try it, you know. And I think they think the secret is being somewhere in between. I'm never going to be that person, that I'm never going to go skydiving. It's just not going to happen. But I have been scuba diving, and I did that because I was with the company, and my boss was an avid scuba diver. He loved it, and he basically made us all try it, and I've realized I loved it, but I would have never done that if I hadn't been put in that situation

Debbie Weiss  29:29  
exactly. Oh, my goodness. I can't, I can't, you know, when I trace my steps back a little bit. I was involved in this organization for many, many years, in every capacity, except for President. Because the President had to speak in public to about 150 people. I'm like, Yeah, I'm not doing that. So I would just keep being vice president. I'll be treasurer again. Whatever it was like I would stay involved. And when the time came, and I really had to, you know, make the decision, I remember saying to Gary, what should I do? And I would, you know, I had this argument. Oh, but if I don't do it, am I going to really regret it? Blah, blah, blah. And Gary hated that I was, like, a volunteer aholic, and so he was always annoyed whenever I was like, agree to do something else, and he said, I think you should do it because, you know, deep down, you really want to do it, and if you don't, you will regret it. And the fact that he kind of pushed me over the edge, because I knew there, there's never been a time where he said, Yeah, I think you should volunteer. And I did that. And I Oh, my goodness, I can't even, I don't even know how I got up there and spoke. I sat in the audience before they introduced me, and I was thinking, you know, about my escape plan, and how I could just text the person on the podium and say, oh, sorry, I got really sick, and I had to leave my speeches up there. Can you just read it? And I didn't do that. And I got up there, and I started talking, and they laughed when they were supposed to laugh. And I was telling this story that I had practiced a million times, and I didn't get emotional. It was actually about my father, and when I was in that moment, the emotion hit me, the whole impact, and I got emotional, and I had to, like, take a second, and everybody, you know, it was obvious, but I looked out into the audience, and I saw every single person looking at me. They weren't looking at their phone, or, you know, looking down like they were engaged. And I also saw some people's eyes glistening, and I thought, wow, this is amazing, because if by speaking my experience, because that's all I was telling was my experience, that's what got people, if that is a way to connect with other people and share what I've learned, it it's incredible. And I want more of

Brian Smith  32:22  
this. Wow, wow, that's awesome. Yeah, that's the thing, you know. We are the we are the best experts in ourselves, right? So we might feel like I have nothing to say to someone you know, but you get up there, you tell your story, you tell it in a heartfelt way, and people connect with that. And I love that, the fact you did that, and then you want more of it. Let's talk about caregiving for a while, because a lot of us here either have been or will be caregivers, and we're our generation sounds like they call like the sandwich generation, where we're taking care of our kids at the same time we're taking care of our parents, and you've taken care of a child, a parent and a spouse, so how does it? How did those experiences differ for you?

Debbie Weiss  33:06  
Oh, definitely, very different. My dad. You know, that was my first experience with caregiving. I think, you know, like you said earlier, when you're in your 40s and 50s, you expect to be your parents, caregiver. I don't want to say expect, but it's not unusual, right?

Brian Smith  33:30  
You know, it's, it's a good likelihood that's coming up. Yeah,

Debbie Weiss  33:35  
yeah. So at at that age, I think the fact that I did it for so long of a period of time made it incredibly taxing with my son. You know, if you're a parent, that kind of love is different. And I think, I think, I think that's what it really comes down to, your relationship with each person is different. It's a different type of love to a parent, to a child and to a spouse, and that really impacted I don't think anything could have touched me any more than watching my son suffer. It. It's hard, heartbreaking, heartbreaking, and I would have, and still would do anything to stop that and to help him. And actually, now it's another story, but I think I've, I've done too much and not let him, you know, take those some of the falls that he needs to take on his own with your spouse, it's in, I think, in all the ways there's that, for me looking back, there's that anticipatory grief, or that grief that you're feeling. I lost my father like i My father was alive, but I lost. My father. I never realized that I was also grieving the fact that even though, like I said, my dad was still here on earth, he was not the same dad. He was we, we switched positions, I did not have my father in my 20s. And I don't want to say, you know, it's not that Sam is not the son that I want, because it's not like that, but when you find out, you realize, oh, his life is not going to be the vision that I had. That doesn't mean it's not going to be great, but it's not what I would have hoped for. And so you have that kind of grief that is uncomfortable to admit. And then with my husband, I lost my partner, I lost my partner, he was still here. He also not the same person. He also struggled, like I said earlier, with mental illness, that that's a whole other conversation. And really the toughest thing that I've had to deal with in all of my caregiving, and he was gone. And not only was he gone, because specifically, I believe, of the mental illness, he was not easy to take care of, right? And it was a very unhappy household, yeah,

Brian Smith  36:25  
I think mental illness can be harder to deal with than physical illness. We all totally I have mental in my family, and we see someone, they've got, they've they're missing a leg, or they have cancer, we know, okay, well, they can't walk because they don't have a leg. When a person has a mental disability, it's harder for us to relate to, and that I understand why you might say that would be something really difficult, and I really appreciate you sharing that and being so vulnerable because grief, I believe, is the loss of what we expected or what we wanted. It doesn't necessarily mean the loss of a of a life. And we talk about anticipatory grief. People think of that as like, Oh, I know this person is going to die, therefore I'm grieving their their death. But there's really that loss of that relationship. Your father is not your father anymore. Your spouse is now. You know you're not. You don't expect to care for your spouse at that age, your son's not going to have the life that you anticipated or that you might have if you got that sit down on a piece of paper and write out the perfect life, it wouldn't be that life. And that's a very real form of grief that you're going through while the person's still here. I think it's really, I appreciate you sharing. I said, because I think it's important for people to understand that, because that sometimes people have that feeling they're like, I don't know what this is, because they're still here, but they're really not. No,

Debbie Weiss  37:54  
they're not. And I think guilt comes with that too.

Brian Smith  37:58  
Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about fish. Yeah, let's talk about fish. Yeah,

Debbie Weiss  38:02  
like, okay, they're the ones suffering. And here you are feeling, you know, guilty that you feel this way, that you know you don't have the right to acknowledge those feelings. I mean, it is similar, and I think more people can relate to what, exactly what you're saying, and I can think of it with Gary. I remember, once he was diagnosed, all I was doing was googling. Is his oncologist wouldn't give us, you know, give me something. Give me something. I just want something finite. Because, you know, I'm an accountant, and I need to know. And obviously they can't do that. And so when I I didn't know, like I said, it kind of happened suddenly, so it was not really expected at that time, even though I knew it was coming. And you have that guilty feeling, because I'm thinking to myself, how much longer can this last? I can't take it. My kids can't take it, and he is suffering so that it's cruel, yeah, right? So, and then you feel so guilty. You feel so guilty for even having those thoughts. Because you're thinking, well, it's not like I wish that he would die, right? But I kind of do, but, you know, it's, it's a, it's a really, I think, complex, difficult feeling. And when you learn that everybody goes through that, you know, when it's not a sudden death, you know, after caregiving whatever it is, then I think you're able to take a breath and let yourself off the hook, because you're not a bad person. Your feelings are are natural and common. Yeah,

Brian Smith  39:47  
thank you again. Thank you so much for sharing that. Because we do, we beat ourselves up and we say there's something wrong with me. This is an evil thought. This is a thought I shouldn't have. And I would say every emotion is valid. It. You need to feel it, let it go through you're having it for a reason, and we can beat ourselves up so badly. And I've heard people say that after someone passes, it's gone through an extended illness or something, when they feel relief because the person is no longer suffering, or you no longer then you feel guilty for feeling the relief.

Debbie Weiss  40:20  
Oh, my goodness, absolutely, absolutely. And you feel relief on one hand. You know at certain times. I remember right after Gary died, I the room I'm sitting in right now in my house, this was a room. It's an it's was originally an office, and then he couldn't get up the stairs, so we turned this into a bedroom. And after he died, my my brother, who lives in Ohio, so he was, he stayed with me a little extra time, and in that time, literally, I don't, Gary hadn't even been gone a week. We we fixed this whole room and changed it. And I felt kind of that people were judging me like, Wow, you got rid of him really quickly, yeah. But one, it was out of necessity, because my brother is not here, and I didn't really have anybody else who could, like do all the physical heavy lifting. But two it, it kind of brought me comfort to be able to come to this room where I felt Gary and and use it for a different purpose. Yeah, you know that's

Brian Smith  41:39  
so important. You know, after, after our daughter passed, she was 15, and so, you know, people would ask, like, at what point do you change the room, you know, what point do you do you repurpose the room, you know? And then, like, the answer is different for everybody. Some people might need the space. Some people feel like they want some new energy in there doesn't mean you're getting rid of your loved one. Moving their stuff out is not getting rid of them. They will always be with us. So again, you have to turn within for those answers, and we have to stop trying to worry about what other people are going to think, because, you know, people could judge you either way. Shayna room is still pretty much the same as it was 10 years ago. We've given away a lot of her clothes and stuff like that, but her furniture is still in there, and it's still her bookcase is still in there, books and stuff. And some people might say, well, you're holding on to her, you know, that's, that's, that's not good. You're, you're obsessing over whatever. So people are going to judge no matter what you do. So do whatever feels, feels right for you?

Debbie Weiss  42:43  
I do agree with that. I do definitely, definitely agree with that. It's just like now, at this point, people are saying, Well, are you going to date? Yeah, you know. And that's a whole other interesting category. And also interesting how people judge how quickly or how slowly that happens, or if it happens. And, you know, I'm on some Facebook groups where even I'm like, Oh my gosh, how do they do it so quickly? Like, three months later, they're dating, that just seems but you don't know. Every every circumstance is different, and I'll know, and I'm getting there, I'll know when it's right for me, not because, oh, the two year mark has passed, boom, get yourself on some dating app. No, maybe I never want to date. Maybe I don't know. I don't know it's, it's nobody else's. It's hard, because I do think that there is a lot of judgment, and it's just like everything else, until you go through it yourself, you just don't know what it feels like. You can try, right? But you just don't know. Yeah, it's interesting.

Brian Smith  43:53  
Yeah, yeah. Having this conversation right now is really interesting, because I've got a friend. I've known him for 2627 years, I guess, now. And his wife passed away suddenly four years ago, and she was like, not even 50, and so again four years ago. So we just went to his house for dinner, like, two nights ago, and his new girlfriend was there. And I remember when I heard like he has a girlfriend, like, how long has it been since she passed and and my wife goes four years? I'm like, Oh, wow. First of all, I didn't know it was four years, because it doesn't feel like that to us. And then this is person you've seen only with this other person for so long, and it's just, it's a weird thing, and but what I realized is, like, I have no idea what I would do, you know, because if you're like in your early 60s and stuff, you might be here for a long time. You might be here for another 2530, years. You might want to date again. So it's again, I think, from the outside looking in, I just have to say, I don't know what I would do, and so it's not my place to have an opinion one way or the other. Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie Weiss  45:00  
And even if you think you know what you would do, you know how many times I said before he was sick? Oh, yeah, if anything ever happened to him, I am done like I am done with this whole I'm good, right? But then you know, well, like you said, I'm 61 it is that what I want? I don't know. I don't think so. So until you're there, even when you think you know you don't know.

Brian Smith  45:24  
Yeah, I completely agree with you. So you decided to write your memoir, though, while your husband was was passing, was transitioning. So what was the reason for that writing it then, and what did you learn from going through that process?

Debbie Weiss  45:39  
Yeah, so it wasn't a conscious decision, like, oh, this seems like a great time to try this at all I had been through the couple of years prior. Everyone kept saying, you know, once I realized that I had something to share, people would say, oh, you should really write a book. Now, how many times has everybody heard that and you say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I really was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is never happening. But something it was like, you know, the universe kind of lined up, and it kept coming up more and more. And one day I was listening to a podcast, one I don't listen to regularly, and the woman's guest was someone who helped first time authors get their stories out there. And listening to her, I liked her, and I thought, Oh, my goodness, this this is like for me, this is a sign I have to get in touch with this woman and just see where this leads me, and I did, and I liked her, and she was launching a course for first time authors to learn, because I, like I said, I didn't know anything, and I was scared to take the course, right, because this was way out of my comfort zone, and I had all these limiting beliefs, and I was, like, about to take the plunge, and my husband got the diagnosis, and I was talking to a therapist at the time, and I said to the therapist, I'm even, I'm I'm mortified that I'm even, like, thinking about such a thing when we just got this news. And obviously I'm not doing this now. I'll stay in touch with her. I'll see where life takes me. And she said, I disagree. She said, I think that this is the perfect time, and this is exactly, exactly what you'll need. I thought, what? And she said, you're going to need something separate from everything that's going to be going on, you're going to need something separate, just for you. And I said, Well, what if I can't go to the, you know, online class group every week, and what if there's homework and I don't hand in the homework? And what if? What if? And she said, Who cares? And I thought, Oh, I guess so. Who cares? And so I signed up for the course, and I would say, the first six weeks, I was lost in what I was I had no idea even how to start writing or think or, you know, again, the way my brain worked. I needed to see it all laid out. I wasn't just going to, like, start writing some stories and see where it leads me. No, I want to know exactly where it's leading me. And once I got that down, then it was, it was much easier. I think what wound up happening was, is that my therapist was 100% right, even though it was extremely difficult to write. And, you know, I would sometimes sit there and kind of just stare at the keyboard, not knowing what to type. I I started making it a priority. You know, it's just like any habit every day or most days I'm going to write, whether it's for 15 minutes or it's for 40 minutes, whatever it is something is better than nothing, but it's not going to happen unless I make it happen. And so I would schedule it in. Sometimes I would write at 530 in the morning before my husband woke up. If my husband was in the hospital, I'd bring my computer to the hospital. You know, I was there with him all day, from eight to eight or whatever it was when he was sleeping, or went for a test I wrote, and it really was what I needed, because it did. It gave me something that was just my own. Now, besides the fact that it was cathartic because I was writing stories about my life, you know, that is a whole other thing, right? But I just think the idea was that learning something new, having something different, separate to focus on during that time it was brought a little bit of excitement, even though you don't want to say, just like you wouldn't want to say, Oh, look, I'm so excited. You know when I know what's happening with my husband, but it was it really, it nourished me. And when he died, I was three chapters shy of finishing. He died on December 30. I was supposed to hand in my first manuscript to the editor, my first draft by january 15. And they said to me, Well, of course, don't be silly. You know, we'll extend the due date. And after everyone went home, and how? You know, everyone who's lost someone knows that that's the hardest time. You know now you're left with it, and everyone else goes back to their normal lives, and your life will never be the same again. And I thought, well, it saved me while he was dying. Maybe it can do the same now. And so I shifted my focus, and I finished by january 15, and and that process, you know, then there's a whole editing process that I despised, but that kind of kept me my mind there, you know, then it really happened. Then I knew I was going to release my book on August 9. And so there was just a bright light, something else to focus on and and that whole time I was learning something new. Because, you know, there's a whole journey from the time you write the first draft to it actually gets published. And so it was all a learning process and and exciting during a very difficult time that really, really helped me. Yes,

Brian Smith  51:35  
well, I pushed Yeah, what you said there, I think was really interesting about like I felt like I shouldn't be excited, or couldn't be excited when my husband is dying. And that illustrates life is never all good or all bad. And when we were in grief, we feel like other people think this, or maybe we think this, okay, I'm supposed to just be sad all the time. I'm just supposed to concentrate on this one thing, and that's not what life is about. There's always, there's always a mixture of good and good and bad to use those terms like we like we use things that we judge to be good and bad. And there's never a time when it's not a time to have something that to look forward to, maybe when you're going through grief, that's that's actually the best time to have this, this other thing as you, as your person, said, so I think that's, I think it's a wonderful, you know, revelation that occurred to you. I want to ask you about your Canfield certified trainer, and first of all, what does that mean, and has that helped you to reframe life's challenges?

Debbie Weiss  52:38  
So Jack Canfield co wrote a book with Janet Switzer called the success principles. And when I first found it, it was really, it was a lesson plan. He was actually a teacher that was his first career. And again, I, I love a lesson plan like it laid it all out for me, and what I realized was I had already done a lot of the steps, maybe not in the same order, and you don't have to do it in the same order. And I felt like that gave me a framework to deliver my message to other people, like, why should I reinvent the wheel? You know, I agree with what is laid out here. So, so he has a goal of, I think it's a million certified trainers, because he himself, and he's 80 now, he himself can't get to as many people as he would like. But if he has trainers who can, you know, deliver his message and help people realize that they have it within them to do whatever they want. You know, that's his goal.

Brian Smith  53:53  
Awesome. So tell me about your business, a sprinkle of hearts.

Debbie Weiss  53:59  
So actually, a month and a half before Gary died, I was scrolling on my phone, and I don't remember what I was shopping for, and I put in hearts, because I've always loved hearts. And when I was in college in Washington, DC, there was a store that sold only things with hearts in them. And when I discovered that store, I wanted to literally move my bed in that store. It just made me so happy, and my friends would be so annoyed. I'm like, let's go to that mall, or whatever it was. And then again, and I said, Someday I am going to have a heart store. And of course, life happened. Now it's 40 years later, and for whatever reason, that night, I thought, oh my gosh, I forgot it's 2022, or whatever it was, I don't need to have a brick and mortar store. I can have. An online store. And I, you know, through what I had been doing, I had a connection, and she helped people set up their stores and blah, blah, blah, actually, on the same day the book was due to the editor, the store opened because I wanted it opened a month before Valentine's Day. So it opened on January 14, 2023 Oh, wow. This this year. Over the last two months, it's now transitioned a little bit, but, I mean, it was crazy, like I made my dream come true. So parts and sprinkles and all those things, it's just something that I've always loved that makes me smile. So that's where it comes from. Awesome,

Brian Smith  55:44  
awesome. So we're going to wrap up here pretty soon. So I want to ask you a question. If someone listening today is in the depths of grief and they're going they're going through it, and you've been through it, what's one piece of advice you want to leave them with today?

Debbie Weiss  56:04  
Well, I think what you just said is it's okay to feel two two feelings at the same time, if you just start to and and that's kind of where the sprinkle effect came from. If you just can sprinkle little little pieces of something new, maybe some new ideas, maybe start to do what we're calling the work, the possibility, where do I go from here? Where do I want to go from here? What is something that I can maybe? Maybe for you, it's, you know, I always wanted, and I say knitting because I never wanted to try knitting, but it's one of the things my friend forced me into. And because she said, you said, maybe I can. So now I had to, you know, put my money where my mouth is, and it turned out to be something that I did, actually, in my grief, find very relaxing. So, you know it's okay give yourself permission. What is something small or big that you've always wanted to try or do, and figure out how you can make that happen, how you can make one small step. Because I think that even though that doesn't change your grief, and it doesn't mean it's going away, and it doesn't mean that there won't be times that it is so darn hard, because it will be, but it's kind of giving yourself a little light at the end of the tunnel and a little bit of of direction, you know, a little sprinkle of hope,

Brian Smith  57:40  
yeah, yeah, that that's, that's great. That's a great piece of advice, and I think a great way to wrap up today. So remind people of name of your books, and when people can find out more about you. Sure,

Debbie Weiss  57:52  
my memoir is on second thought, maybe I can, and my newest book is The sprinkle effect. They're both on Amazon, or this is how my website changed. I have two websites. One is a sprinkle of hearts.com where my books are for sale. And then I also have my own website, Debbie R weiss.com and there's links there too. Awesome.

Brian Smith  58:13  
Debbie, it's great to meet you today. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Debbie Weiss  58:17  
Same to you. Thanks for having me. Hi,

Transcribed by https://otter.ai