PROFOUND Near-Death Experience: Stephen Weber's Journey to 'The Place Between Here and There!

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Hey everybody, this is Brian Smith. I'm back with another episode of grief to growth. And I've got with me today Steve Weber and his partner, Kathy plant. And Steve and Kathy are the co authors of the book, the place between here and now. And here and there, I should say here there, and I'm going to read a short bio or short introduction, then we're just going to have a conversation about their experiences. Steven Weber is a technology project manager and Katherine plan is a childcare worker and Reiki practitioner, and they live in North Pointe Long Island, New York with their precious pups Mary's, a Rottweiler and banden and Australian shepherd. They both have 22 year old daughters at attend university in Connecticut. Steven Kathy has successful workshops in the place between here and there, which is their book, as I said earlier, accompanied by music and meditation. in their spare time, they enjoy hiking and many beautiful parks in Long Island, doing yoga, running and cooking.

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They also enjoy sharing their spiritual enthusiasm by helping curtains, full moon ceremonies, sound healings and guided meditations with friends, Steven Kathy love to hear from the readers and are thrilled to answer all correspondence. So after this, I'll give information on how you can contact them. So with that, I want to welcome you to grief to grow Steve and Kathy,

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thanks so much. I really appreciate the sharing your time and your audience with us. And thank you. Yeah,

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well, it's great to have you here. I know just a little bit about your story. So I want to give you a chance to start wherever you like. And tell me about about what how the book came about.

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Man well is that is that I've been a Harley rider all my life. But you know, from a very young age, I was riding motorcycles and been a part of my life. And I was driving out east on Eastern Long Island. We live in Long Island. And the eastern is more of a rural community. So I would occasionally drive out there have some barbecue and drive back Saturday, a Sunday afternoon. And the traffic was backed up from miles, people were driving on the shoulder to make make a right hand turn in the road ahead. And very foolishly I did the same thing.

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And and when I got to the intersection, a truck coming the opposite direction, made a left hand turn and T boned me on my motorcycle. And the lights went out. I mean, that was I was I was out the next things I knew is that I was flying through the air and a helicopter to to a trauma center. I recognized it from the air right away was Stony Brook Hospital, one of the premier trauma centers in the United States. I just happened dumb luck that I live nearby.

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And, and the helicopter could land nearby because there was a school is a rural area. And, and wow, they i was i was gravely injured, my spine was broken. I had grave internal injuries, they were immediately life threatening that operates several times. My hip was shattered. I it's so many injuries. It's like an autopsy report. Yeah, it's it's amazing.

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The things that they did at Stony Brook hospital is just, they did everything right. But it wasn't just the machines. It was the people as the nurses, it was the caring people really cared. And that's what I learned later on. That's what that's one of the most important lessons you learn in having these types of experiences. And so what and so what I lay in the hospital for, for three weeks in a coma, and that's the way I appeared to the rest of the world. But, but in myself, I was in a place a place I call the place between here and there. And the overall is it's kind of like purgatory the way I'm a Catholic and the way they kind of taught us what purgatory was. But it's a it's not a place of punishment. It's a place of knowledge and enlightenment, and preparing you for for completing your journey into spirit. And it was there. I was in this place between here and there. And I was being prepared for the afterlife. And that's the start of a story.

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Yeah.

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And when did this happen, Steve?

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This happened in I guess 2016 four years ago. Oh, wow. Okay, so

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this is pretty recent. Okay.

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Yeah. Yeah, it's, it was it was, you know, and so many levels, it's that you would think that it was a terrible thing that happened to me. But by far, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I wouldn't go back and change a moment of it. But it took me a long time to realize it on when I say I was in a place between here and there is that is that it was centered on three important scenes that are that were taken from my life where I learned very important lessons, and I was actually tested on that knowledge. The first place was a work like setting me here was on this is where I was taught what I call the wizard The language of the universe are what I later learned to be synching with the Akashic Record. That means sharing all of your knowledge with the all that is, and downloading all the wisdom of the universe, that that will help you trance make this transit into spirit. The next thing that happened to me is I had a light review. And I reviewed my entire life from both to back many times, learning each time, and growing spiritually and feeling such a sense of bliss. Each time I reviewed my life, and, and I just saw so many things in my experiences that that really brought me You just just beautiful, beautiful enlightenment. And then finally, I was tested on my knowledge.

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And this was what was a test that I failed on. And, and this test was to determine whether or not I would continue in spirit or return back to Earth to have continued human incarnations. So that was the whole setting, in, in the place between here and there. And, and one of the first things that so So first, I was taught what out the language of the universe, I was taught certain wisdom that I was going to be using. But it wasn't that I was in school that somebody sat down and said, okay, Stevie, now it's time to learn this and blah, blah, blah, no, it wasn't like that. It was to see things and feel things. So my internal teacher could see these things and learn them. And to help me understand those things. So this is a perfect example of one of the first lessons I learned is that I learned how to see spirit in people, okay. And so the way I was first introduced to this is that I saw people from my life, people who I knew I saw every day, everything looked fine, we're in a work like setting, then I saw people who I hadn't seen it 20 and 30 years, and they look just like I remember them, they haven't changed, although many years have passed. And then as time went on, things started to change, I start to see people who I knew as, as teenagers, I might see them as, as elderly people, or people who I knew as elderly, I might see them as kids, or I might see people, men, as women and women as men, and all different types of nationalities, and, and, and ethnicities. And, and in the end, I was still able to recognize that part about each and every person that is unique to them, regardless of what shape or form they took. And that's when I realized that I was seeing spirit. That's what I was being taught. That was the first lesson, the that be able to see spirit.

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And this was you were taught in the first place, you said you went to the kind of the, where you were going to the Akashic records and doing the Okay,

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and so on. And so I that went on for for quite a while on, I was taught different things. Like, for instance, once I could see spirit, and I could feel spirit, all of a sudden, I noticed everything around me had spirit. It wasn't just people, it was plants, it was animals, everything has had had spirit.

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And that spirit was all common.

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And I began to realize that we're really, we are all connected, we are all connected, we are all part of one consciousness, all of us, very similar to like cells in a body, how each cell has its own life that lives it dies it, it reproduces, you know, it's, it has its own life, but all those cells together, make up us, and we have a consciousness, all of those cells don't know of us in our consciousness. And that's what what we are each of our spirits together, we are all part of the same the whole and that's the Holy Spirit. And that's one of another lesson that I learned as part of that consciousness. Some other lessons were, were that, that your experiences are so vital to help you learn and grow. And in the next step, that is where I really learned the value of the of experiences because the first things I learned was the Akashic Records synching with the Akashic records, learning the wisdom of the universe. The next place is that I was went through a life review, and this was a very tough and yet beautiful process, because that what I did is now I had the benefit of having this wisdom from this sinking of the Kaushik record, and secondly, I've only lived Through these events throughout my life, so so now I get to be a lawyer. It's not that I could influence events, but I could see events over and over again, kind of like watching a movie.

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But there was something different about it. Because now that I could see spirit, every situation that I was in, in my life was really not what I thought, because now I could see why everybody was there. They were for different reasons. And, and there was a physical reason, like maybe we had a fight in the school yard. So everybody from school at the school don't want wants to watch it. So that might be the physical reason why they're there. But once I could see spirit, there was a spiritual reason their lesson learned or some something that had a play out within their own life app. And so now I began to realize so many of those experiences that I had, that I thought, Well, one thing really was another thing. And there was so much more to it, because now I could feel what the other people were feeling. And so now, after learning all throughout my life, seen it all over again, I've learned so many more things, and I was more blissful at the end than when I started.

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And one of the first things I've learned there is that some of the worst experiences in my life, some of the most heart wrenching things, or some of those experience that brought me the most bliss, when I was doing my life review, ruins, all of a sudden, you have all this stuff hanging over you, you have all this hate and animosity towards yourself, as well as others.

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Now, all of a sudden, all those things start to make sense, because you start to see other people's perspectives, and why people are on different paths.

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And yet, you see things differently. And, and now when I understood those horrible events, and they washed away with the wisdom of the meaning of it, all of a sudden, it was like, Wow, it was beautiful. It really was because that you don't feel, you know, hate and animosity is something that's so difficult to carry around with you every day to project that on all of the people most of the time, people you love. And likewise, to be able to receive that from from yourself and for others, all that's gone. And that brings bliss. And so that life review went on over and over and over and over again.

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Each time I learned from it, I learned it was beautiful. I knew it's gonna be a tough day, every time it started. But by the end, wow, you know, I wasn't in a rush.

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But you get addicted to the bliss, because it really is.

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It's just wow, it's a great, great, great, great feeling.

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And, and that went on for so many times, because the need as long as I kept on learning I kept was in that situation. Very similar to the first place, the first place where I was learning the Kaushik record being synced with the Kaushik record and learning the wisdom of the universe. I stayed there as long as I was learning once I stopped learning, then I did my life review. When I stopped learning from my life review, then I went to the next phase of this, of this beautiful journey. Yeah.

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And, and that's a that's the first place I was in in the place between here and there.

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Where I shared my wisdom we see and then I did my life reviews.

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So when you when you transfer it from here to there, was there a feeling of leaving your body? Did you go through any? Or did you just what did you find yourself there? What did you think was going on? Did you know you're dead?

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Oh, no telling it. I had no idea. It was.

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Everything was so rooted in my life. I didn't know anything. I didn't even know. Although, when I was injured, I knew I was in an accident. But when I was here, I didn't know I was in an accident because there's nothing wrong with me. I was just like, I I don't know. It's just like, why I didn't think of it. And and it's not like I forgot it, but it just didn't occur to me.

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I don't know. It's just like a continuation of my life. Yeah.

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And I know a lot of people talk about like, walking down or going to a tunnel or, or seeing a light or think things like lamp like that. I didn't experience any of that. It was I was on my motorcycle. And the next moment I was in work, and I was dealing with the situation then I started to see the spirit and stuff. It was just like one second this. This was the next second. That was it.

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And was there any perception of time and you said that you went through these things over and over and over again. How did it feel?

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timewise?

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Okay, time is kind of cool there in the sense that there isn't like a sun rising or sunsetting in that in the way that it does here. And it wasn't that this clock's ticking like, like, what is time it's like water boiling on the stove is I get turned on the key, it takes a while, then it boils out, well, you have appointments in the future is like that there. It's that the real measure of time is how much you've learned, the experiences you've gone through, because you could always think back is like, oh, way back when is I thought this. But but then all these things happen. And I experienced these things. And now I've grown and now my awareness is here.

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Wow, I went through a whole lot.

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That gives you the impression of time gets what has happened to you. If you don't do anything, which wasn't the case, I would imagine, it would go so slow, like nothing would happen. It's like really the, the as much as you learn and grow. That's where the time brings you.

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Okay. And as you're going through, like, for example, the reviews, were there for the guides with you were there, or was it you on your own? How does that work?

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Not at this time.

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But but but no, that comes into play later on? But no, it was all a solitary thing. Okay.

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Okay, yeah, synching with the record, and the life review, I was being prepared for the next important step. And that was to be tested on my knowledge. And, and so that was the second place I was in. So I was tested on my knowledge, but I didn't know at the time, anything to do with the test. And this is stuff that after thinking about it, and experiencing certain things that that now I realize it was a test. And but but at the time, I had no idea. I had no idea that I was on the verge of life and death and that I was being transitioned to be in spirit.

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And I would have been spirit if it wasn't for all these machines, and the caring, but other than that my body thought I was dying. And so I was being prepared to spirit. And, and so and so that was the first place.

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Now the second place, I'm being tested. And that's tested, what I mean is that if you think about the ascension of your spirit, after you pass, is that is that are you going to continue in spirit, or you're going to be returned to Earth for another incarnation To learn more, because if it wasn't for my life experiences, I would have nothing to draw upon in the life review, there would be nothing there. Hmm. So the experiences are everything so so so that's why we come to earth to have these experiences. I often say down to earth but but I that's just a bigger speech. And often I'll talk about days one and I speak about that place is that I really don't mean days, I was just like the way people talk so on if I want to make that. And so in the in the second place is I was being tested, what I later learn to either I was going to be in spirit, be a spirit guide, or continue my evolution to be with the Ascended Masters and perhaps eventually, with the consciousness of the Creator, but right now is being tested on that. So what else being tested is I had, I was in charge of a group of kids, young adults, and I was there to teach them a task. And, and no matter what I did, they wouldn't listen to me would feel like I was connecting with them. I really would I would feel it like like, hey, it's you and me. You know, Come on, guys. Let's do it. Kind of like coach Steve, you know, you know, it's just like, I feel like I connect with them. And then they go and they run off.

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And then then I'd be held accountable for that. And I was just trying, I tried every bit of little manipulating tactics.

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I know, I tried bribing them. I tried one team against the other team. Like I tried all these little inspirational tactics. I know from sports or from work or from other things, you know, when you're trying to get a team together, nothing worked.

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Finally on Finally I was at my wit's end, I went back to the person who is in charge of me.

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And I realized as I stood before them, I realized I was looking into my higher self, that that, that my highest self that I was just part of that. And then I felt my higher self awareness.

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And then all of a sudden, everything my perception of everything changed, as I realized is that is that I wasn't there to prepare those kids to do a task. That really those were spirits who have yet to have an encounter of human incarnation, and I was there to prepare them for their first human incarnation. That's what I failed that because that I didn't see them. As spirits, I was taught how to see spirit.

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And the first chance I get, I don't see him as, don't be kids wouldn't listen. And then I tried to manipulate them instead of seeing this spirit, and understanding and making that connection. And that is where I fail that, but but eventually I succeeded because that with the help of this wisdom, but I didn't do it myself. Okay. And, and I think that, that if I did, if I was successful, I think perhaps I would have stayed in spirit for forever or for time, because that it I think, if that was the case, I think I was going to be a spirit guide.

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That's what, you know, that was the next step in my spiritual evolution for those who who are in physical incarnation. But but I wasn't ready because that I didn't see it. And then, but but there was something very interesting in that place is that is that there was a lady there who was always praying.

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And I didn't understand that it because I wasn't a spiritual person. I kind of looked like prayer it kind of like I did it.

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Because, you know, we, we pray before we, you know, I did, it wasn't like, I don't know. But I was feeling from this lady's prayers is that I couldn't hear a prayers, but I felt such a love. And such an energy that it was, it drove me You know, it, you know, in some of the challenges that I was there, I couldn't hear her words, but our energy through a prayers is that that's what helped driving me.

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And that's something I learned a little bit later on what the significance of that is. And then finally, finally, that was the end of that place. As soon as, as soon as I was successful, and helping the kids transition to their to their next spiritual phase to have the human incarnation. Now, I was at the final place before I eventually returned back to, to my physical state of mind. Okay.

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Yeah. Okay. So, um, when you were going through this test was, were you aware that it was a test, or?

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No, I wasn't on an even at the end of it. I wasn't aware of was was a test.

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I thought I was just doing tasks. And at this time, I mean, you would think that I would think at this point, that that Steve, you're not in Kansas anymore. Like, like, like I expect, like, no, it just didn't occur to me. I don't know why.

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Yeah. No, it wasn't until the very end, that that it occurred to me that that something's going on here. Mm hmm. And it wasn't until till the very end, and I and that's, and that's where we are right now.

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Yeah. So you were apparently were sent back at some point. So tell me about how that happened.

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I'm sorry. I don't not sure I understand the question.

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Well, you were you were sent back from that place.

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You said, you so you're back here. So how did that tell me how that transition happened?

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So true. Okay, so then I was in I live in a town on Long Island. I'm very young, it's a very small community, but but it's, it's an old fashioned community, like everyone knows each other. And at the end of every day, we'll have the town goes to the water to watch the sunset, we call it the bluff.

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And, and some people drink coffee, other people like drink out of red solo cups, and stuff and, and they watch the sunset.

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So so when I was in that place, I had a similar scene that that I did over and over again, with two old friends of mine, Joe and john, they were their old king sparkers that's the town I live in. And they were in their 80s.

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And, and we would drink coffee and and watch the sunset at the end of every day when I was there. I used the term day, you know, we talked about just very loosely. And And this went over over and over many times over again. And it wasn't. And then finally, I thought to myself is Joey and Johnny, Joe and john are both dead. Like, how could they be here? Hmm. You know, and and that was what was it and so it kept on going over and over again, seeing them and watching the sunset. And I want to ask them why they were here. And it was kind of starting to feel like an anxiety for the first time because that I was feeling like something big was going to happen soon. And and as each time I saw that I don't know why I didn't want to ask them. I'm thinking in my own mind, you know, I'm just starting to think this I'm not 100% sure, but on, but I'm starting to think because perhaps I was, I was I was very blissful at this point.

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And perhaps I was concerned, maybe the bliss would stop like, like, it wasn't allowed. I don't know, these are all things that that I just don't know. And I was, it was all in my mind.

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Nobody said anything. It's all in though, you know, the universe, according to Steve, you know, I don't, I don't know.

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But, but so. So. So then finally, I felt if I didn't ask them now, I would never get this opportunity ever again. And so what so I finally asked them what they were doing here. And they said, They're here to make sure I'm alright.

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And that kind of echoed in my mind, because that I didn't feel like anything was wrong with me.

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Yeah, you notice I felt fine.

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But But this whole experience was very odd. And so it was all getting to me at the same time.

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And, and then, then as we watched, the sunset just got brighter and brighter and brighter. And then when I couldn't stand it, I closed my eyes. When I opened my eyes again, I was in my hospital room, and my mom was was was there. And she was telling me, that was an awful accident. And, and, and that was me returning back to, to my physical state.

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But it wasn't until I started to recover, I couldn't walk, I was in a very, very, very bad state that, that my spine was broken.

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I had all these pins and screws in my hip. And, you know, I've been out for three, three weeks.

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I was I was I was pretty beefy guy before. And now I look like Cathy says, A pluck chicken. No, no, I wasn't too, too good. But then I started to, you know, do my rehabilitation. I had such a drive to get better, that that I'd often feel this energy. And was then I realize, Joe and john Joe broke his neck when he was a kid at the bluff. And he and he had his back views the whole time as he is in his life, and would walk around kind of like Frankenstein. It was a funny guy, you know, he, he made a lot of fun with it as a good soul.

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And then john, he was a diabetic and he and his leg got all infected. And he died from from that, you know, when he was an old man, older person. Yeah. And I had problems with my back. I had a broken back, and my leg was in pieces. And it wasn't then I realized that there would have been my spirit guides to help me through going through this process because that I didn't, I didn't have them in my ear saying Stevie Come on, or Kaunas TV, you know? No, but I felt their energy. Same way as I felt the energy of the lady praying is that I felt their energy and I felt their wisdom by having a having the same experiences. And that's what what they meant that that I would, I would I would see you later that that that's that's that that's that they were here to make sure that I was okay.

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Now Now it made sense. And, but that lady, I remember that lady now. Because Because that lady now I could see spirit and now I'm awake. And I'm starting to come to my senses again. I know who that lady was, huh? It was my dear friend Kathy. Oh, I knew it. This lady right here. My Kathy, my co author is that that we would just friends at that time. But But she was always a little kooky because she would talk about these spirit things sometimes because we were like, moms together like I would stay at home dad. So all my friends were were moms and she was one of my mom friends. And she would and she would sometimes talk about spiritual things. I wasn't spiritual at all. But I felt her prayers. sigh as soon as I got my wits together, I said I had to, I had to call her I want to talk to her and tell her about my experience. So the first things I did is I I got my phone as soon as I was untied and I texted her and you got my text?

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Yes, they did.

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So Kathy, you were

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friends for a while. And then when he had the accident, it was very devastating for me. We were friends about 16 years. So I I did the only thing I could do. I wasn't next to kin I couldn't go into the hospital. So I said based on my knowledge of spirit and having lived through my mom's premature passing and my twin brothers premature passing and learning to communicate with spirit because I needed that connection to stay alive. And knew that where Steve was was a place where, although he wasn't in his physical self, he was his spiritual self back in our spiritual home. So through through, like my mind, I could connect to him. So I said to him in my head every day, I said, Steve, I need you to come back, everyone needs you to come back.

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I'm going to pretend that I'm in the hospital room with you because I can't be in there. I'm holding your hand. And we're going to pray the St. Jude prayer, which was what was very meaningful to me. Now, this isn't a religious thing. I mean, this all paths lead to one destination. But this is the saint with whom I resonated. And then I did this every day. And three weeks later, I get a text from him. And he says, Hi, cat, that's Steve, I'm okay. Wow, thank you for visiting me when I was out if you know what I if you if you know what I mean. And I, I was just like, so excited.

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And I typed back and I said, You mean, you know, and he said, let's just say I've been to a place where I know that everyone is connected, but that you and I have a connection that goes beyond this earth. And I learned all about life. And I'd like to share that with you. So I went to the hospital the next day.

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And it was just amazing the things that he learned. And it's just it makes life blissful. I mean, there's so much wisdom.

00:31:30.990 --> 00:31:59.519
Yeah, what people need to know is that there is an eternity to life, there is a continuation of consciousness. So when our loved ones pass, our pets pass, they're there in spirit, they're in an eternal home, and we can connect to them. And and that's just once you get rid of that fear that we're no longer connected to those and that there is really no death, then you could just relax and know that you will see them again.

00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:13.230
And and there's a connection that love never dies, it changes form, but it never dies. love and life are eternal. And that was a very valuable lesson. And it. He's back and I'm so grateful

00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:17.309
most of the times except if I leave my socks on the floor, then

00:32:19.170 --> 00:32:19.740
that's great.

00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:23.430
Yeah, that is?

00:32:24.150 --> 00:32:37.799
Well, it was it was just a very, you know, I definitely it. It was it was definitely a connection that went beyond this world. Yeah.

00:32:34.109 --> 00:32:49.109
But but for a long time, as I put it aside is that is that I was so wrapped up in trying to get better is that I stopped talking about it. And Kathy didn't push me on it too much.

00:32:45.390 --> 00:33:11.970
Because I was convinced that the experience was the drugs they gave me like, like the sedatives or what perhaps I was dreaming, I didn't think it was real. And the couple of times that I that I shared some parts with Kathy Kathy would get real excited about and tell me how it's how it's real. And I would, I would think she was kind of kind of kooky about the whole thing. I just thought it was just a trippy kind of thing.

00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:14.640
I was there. How can it be trippy?

00:33:14.730 --> 00:33:16.049
I don't know. I don't know.

00:33:16.109 --> 00:33:39.210
Well, I think that's that's really not uncommon for people try to rationalize and when you mentioned the drugs or dream, I mean, a lot of people talk about near death experiences and even even doctors will try to explain it away with lack of oxygen to the brain or the drugs or, you know, stuff like that. But how was the experience? Did it feel because what How did it feel to you when you're in that experience?

00:33:39.630 --> 00:34:52.679
I felt extremely blissful all the time. I felt I didn't see like, like, people speak up, perhaps seeing divinity and other things is I didn't see any of that. It was all that but it was a framework around everything is that it was an energy that I felt like love You know, I believe it's, it's deeper than then than that. It's a it's a love of action and about it's more than a feeling it's a it's a wisdom, like, like love is wise. Because Because it's like the expression of love is is it's like the law of attraction. You know, the more you love and the more you put positivity and things around you the more your world changes because that you're putting out a different vibe. it's it's it's different and that's what I felt that the idea is as I learned is that is that you built more evolved than and spiritual and, and it was a beauty like I often wondered like, if all this bs about heaven is true, you know, before I had this experience is that I'd be bored. Oh, I'll be bored. But what am I gonna do?

00:34:50.280 --> 00:35:02.369
sit around, hang out the clouds all day and play to play harps and stuff like what? What would it be? At least for me This is what this experience was.

00:35:02.728 --> 00:35:13.228
So early, you said it this was kind of like purgatory. So kind of like an in between place, do you think this is heaven? Or just like a place that leads to heaven? Or how would you? How would you put that,

00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:20.610
I would say all the bugs. What I mean by that is that is that I think it's preparing you to be in spirit.

00:35:21.090 --> 00:36:47.190
The only reason why I was alive was because that they had these machines that were keeping me alive. And in the past, you wouldn't have access to this type of medical care, because did they work these miracles even put my leg back together, I could walk now. And, and they work these miracles. And But what's more than enable you to survive is that my brain wasn't damaged, like, like, I still have my cognitive abilities. And so and so in the past, that was very rare. I believe that going forward, more people will have these types of experiences, because of these medical procedures and advances and the availability of this type of care. But there's a doctor, I think his last name is par. Now, I should know that better by now. But he's a cardiac surgeon over at Stony Brook hospital where they had the surgery for me, and I never met him. But I saw him on a podcast where he was discussing a book. And he was saying that, that the idea of these life saving medical technologies is going to bring more of these types of experiences that people talk about. And really, we are missing a very, very big component as a society, that that we really need to begin to document this, this information.

00:36:47.280 --> 00:37:05.760
But from a medical standpoint, just as a part of your documenting your history, you know, what did you experience as a part of like, the outpatient procedure? So I thought, you know, I thought that to be, you know, I it made a lot of sense to me that, that it was the machines that kept me going.

00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:41.909
Yeah, and one of the reasons I asked you that question, I've talked to several people who've had near death experiences, and my working theory is that it is kind of a place in between and, and a lot of times in near death experience, we'll hear about a barrier, for example, people say I knew there was a place I couldn't go beyond there was a there was a wall, there was a gate, there was a river I couldn't cross or something. So it seems to be like it might be an in between kind of preparatory place. And maybe even as you said, maybe a place of decision. And I've never quite heard it put the way you did. It's kind of like, why to come back to this physical life.

00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:45.960
I come back reincarnated. Or maybe I move forward to being a spirit guide or something. It's first time I've heard someone put it that way.

00:37:47.550 --> 00:37:48.119
On

00:37:51.179 --> 00:38:48.900
it took a long time to to adjust to that. Mm hmm. Like I wasn't a spiritual person at all. And Kathy had a lot to do with it. And then and then well, is that is that I was well into my rehabilitation. You know, Kathy was was there all the time and, and she was like Sergeant slaughter and Mother Teresa, you know, sometimes she'd beat on me Other times, she would just be kind and supportive. And I had Joey and john as my speed. I felt their energy life was moving on. I was starting to feel really good about things then. And then my 20 year old son died of a drug overdose. Sorry, I went overdose now. This this kid was the light of my life. I was a stay at home dad. I mean that that's how I knew Kathy and all the other moms and, and he was a musician.

00:38:44.039 --> 00:39:00.960
He was he played Jimi Hendrix, like Jimi Hendrix, he played Mozart like Mozart on the on the, on the piano, and he and he played the saxophone, like Dizzy Gillespie played the song horn.

00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:40.320
He was great. And he was a championship wrestler, New York State Champion. He was on a scholarship, he was just, you know, all these wonderful things. And it just happened so fast, you know, it just, it was devastating. I just I got into this funk and I just couldn't shake it. And and Kathy, I'd go on these walks with with with Kathy and I really wouldn't talk and I just like being in her presence, and I felt a certain energy. And, and I began to think about things a little bit more about about the place between here and there. And I wasn't sharing it a lot with her but, but it was just wow.

00:39:40.650 --> 00:39:42.690
So when I'm sorry.

00:39:40.650 --> 00:39:43.500
What did I interrupt you? When did this happen?

00:39:43.768 --> 00:39:48.179
This happened.

00:39:43.768 --> 00:39:50.128
The accident was in 2015. And I lost my son in 2016.

00:39:50.518 --> 00:39:53.969
Okay, so you were you were probably still recovering everything physically at that point?

00:39:53.998 --> 00:40:38.338
Yes, yes, I was still in Kathy was helping me all along the way through experience. And yeah, it was just, it was it was, it was just such a difficult experience is, you know, I kept on thinking to myself, Was it me? You know? No, how did I screw up? You know, I was a biker, you know, I'd like to drink beer in my my Holly eat hot wings and, and stuff but I was fully involved parents I mean, I was my, my my son and my daughter would often tell me why can't I be do parent things and leave them alone You know, you know like I was always in their hair, you know as always involved and and then to miss out on the weddings and birthdays and the grandchildren.

00:40:38.518 --> 00:40:46.409
And then then did I bring this about like, like, you have all these thoughts of deep regret and blame and everything else.

00:40:46.798 --> 00:41:19.469
And then and then one day when I was working through this, Kathy turns around and says Nick, this my son's name is that contact turns around and says, Did they ever try to contact you from spirit? Hmm. I thought this woman was freaking nuts. I really did. Is that is that I'm sitting in grieving. And I'm looking to it and she was really really my best friends. You know? Really? No, although is a guy and girl You know, it's tough to win all your friends are women and moms and stuff.

00:41:19.469 --> 00:41:27.478
You know, it's tough to imagine in this world but but but but no, no, she was my dear friend.

00:41:22.889 --> 00:41:46.438
But how to say this, I almost felt I was almost off piste it because it didn't seem real, like oh, my son's going to talk to me now. And and she backed off right away. And so but but I didn't say a lot. I just kind of went went with the flow because I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to be that way.

00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:53.219
Yeah. And so um, but but the next thing is I know is she's dragging me around to all these trails, we go on, she's leaving little statues of St. Teresa.

00:41:53.309 --> 00:42:34.018
And we're and we're writing stones of prayers, we're putting them down. And then we're, we're leaving the pen there. So so the next day, we would come back to be more prayers that it was almost like we'd go to this shrine this day, this shrine the next day. And each day, there were more, there were more prayer stones that and that was the first time that I started to really feel some relief from from the grief that I was experiencing. Because that all of a sudden is like that old sting song where he talks about the message in the bottle, and, and all the bottles showing up on the shore. Like, like, like, you're not alone in this world.

00:42:30.869 --> 00:43:07.228
Everyone has problems. And everyone has heartbreak and just knowing like I was all of a sudden, I started to feel that connection, again, that I felt in the place between here and there that all of a sudden, like I was starting to feel that spirit. But but but I really, you know, I really didn't share it too much with with with Kathy occasionally, because it was like giving red meat to a dog you know, you know, she she was already having me praying and doing all this stuff. And then then we start to see the signs and, and Kathy

00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:18.869
Well, he was very hesitant to believe me that there was an ability to communicate with spirit, which was made me just shocked because we communicated when he was in spirit.

00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:19.829
Yeah,

00:43:20.070 --> 00:43:27.809
see this now, but it was my magic. He was just living in his lower chakras, his ego, which, you know, everyone does.

00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:30.090
Some more than others.

00:43:30.780 --> 00:44:43.860
So when I started doing what I do best again, which is the praying and trying to connect and seeing all these signs around us that I felt next presence. You know, we were finding roses everywhere we were going and I'm like Steve, does this mean something you don't just find roses would be roses on a trail roses at the beach roses everywhere. And it was the anniversary of his son's passing. And I said, you know, he's contacting us. And he was just like, You are crazy. And I knew I wasn't. Yeah. So it wasn't until his cousin went to visit a very well known local psychic and the psychic when she went to go contact her grandmother, but Nick was like, I'm taking this opportunity to go through the psychic to give a message. And he said, um, she said to the site to my to his cousin, there's a Nic that's coming through and he Do you know who that his and his cousin was like, of course I know who it is. Yeah, let him come through. And she said Nick is saying that he has a synchronicity with St. Teresa and he's sending the roses.

00:44:39.329 --> 00:44:53.400
Okay, and and I thought like, Oh, I had Steve now once he has this he's gonna be like so excited. And he still didn't he still chalked it up to Well, it's a coincidence.

00:44:53.789 --> 00:45:11.159
And I know I know it sounds kind of you know, in hindsight, it sounds like I should have known like, like, I should have known In that place, but but it just it was too hokey pokey for me, you know, turns with but things. I'm a computer guy. So two plus two equals four. Yeah. But well,

00:45:11.219 --> 00:45:12.750
I'm gonna ask you out,

00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:26.099
I just have to say one thing when we made a found out and this was this was the aha moments was that Nick and St. Teresa shared a birthday.

00:45:21.630 --> 00:46:56.010
They both were born on January 2, and Nick passed on the day that St. Teresa was canonized, which is may 17. So when I found that out, and I just excitedly brought that information to Steve and I was like Steve, you know, he said he has a synchronous that he was saying, Teresa, he said, He's sending the roses to let you know that he's okay. And these, those are the synchronicities the birthday and the passing day. And then he was like, well, maybe there is something to this. So he finally was starting to see the connection. And once that aha moment happened, and he opened his awareness to all of that, okay, then the signs started coming left and right i mean we ever since then he is just a sign machines, like we are connecting with this loved one that one love this saying that say that Angel St. Michael, just, there's just this magic that once you open that spiritual door, and you allow that beauty, that connection, I mean, we did the veil gets thinner. When you make that realization, then you get signed suddenly from your loved ones, but you get signs on how to live your life. Like what, what to do, you're struggling with whether you should go down this road of this road, and you'll see left written somewhere and you know, to go left, I mean, it just, it's just such a beautiful thing. When you open that spiritual dawn, once he did that, then life just became better. He knew Nick was okay.

00:46:56.010 --> 00:47:04.559
He knew that there was a continuation of life. And then there was just magic. I mean, life has been magical ever since

00:47:05.280 --> 00:48:15.389
it was it was really is that the aha moment was an aha moment for opening the doors to think about it a little bit more as that. And it wasn't like, like just an epiphany. It was a process now, like Kathy says, It's once I start to think about it. And then I started to think that maybe Nick is in the place where I was. And he was feeling the things that I was feeling that that place is real. And Nick is feeling those things that he's alright, he's happy. He's learning he's growing. He's realizing his, his true self, his higher self in this world in this universe. And, and that brought me peace. And now, that understanding actually brought my son back to me because that anytime I thought of my son, up until that point, I thought of him passing, especially dying of a heroin overdose, and just me not knowing and my responsibility and everything else is that all of a sudden, is that is that no, no, he's okay.

00:48:09.269 --> 00:48:23.460
You know, what, we're all going to be okay, we're all going to be together. And this isn't the end, and that he's feeling that bliss. And now I got him back.

00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:27.360
Because now I don't think about the circumstances of his death.

00:48:27.570 --> 00:48:54.300
I think about all the happy times and him holding the trophies over his head or in playing the saxophone. And people like stopping in the street and looking at him with just all these things I had, I got that back, like giving up the grief, because the grief sub process, at least for me, really is a process. But it wasn't until I was able to give that up that I got the memory of my son back. And that's what I wanted.

00:48:54.420 --> 00:49:15.449
Second, I want my son back number one, but if not, that is I want the happiness when I thought of him back, and soon as I was able to understand that life is eternal, that that place is real, and that he's going on to his beautiful, his beautiful, higher self and the rest of the spiritual existence. That that.

00:49:15.750 --> 00:49:18.630
Wow. It's okay. Yeah.

00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:23.369
So it sounds to me that so you had this experience.

00:49:23.429 --> 00:49:36.360
And you up until your next passing? Maybe even you didn't think it was real, right? You didn't really put together the meaning to it. You just did you just chalk it up to a dream or hallucination or? Well,

00:49:36.630 --> 00:49:43.590
both of those things. Really, I was so preoccupied with getting better.

00:49:39.300 --> 00:50:19.619
Yeah. That was like, Ah, you know, I woke up every morning and pain. I was excited because I it was a great opportunity for improvement. I would say that all the time. The Kathy and I started to go to yoga. And every time I couldn't do something, I'd be like, Wow, what a great opportunity for improvement. And that's kind of like that. Like the attitude I think I felt from my spirit guides Jolyon. And that, and that I was just so wrapped up in it. It wasn't until, you know, really losing my son that it really caused me to really dig down deep. And really, like, I had to face it.

00:50:19.769 --> 00:52:13.349
I was kind of like, put it out of my mind. And Kathy wasn't pushing it on me pushing me too much on it. But, but it was still there. And like, in my own mind is a lot of times when I would say little things to Kathy, I would, I would end it with all the universe, according to Steve Yeah, you know, is it what I didn't talk about it as a place as I talked about, I made fun of myself all the time about it. But after a while, there was little bits of knowledge in there that kind of like, took me by surprise, like, Did I just say that? Like, it was, it was weird. It was. I mean, like, like, a lot of things were what were weird about it. But, but it's just that, you know, when we, when we finally decided to tell the story, and to share with with people, that was a process too, but I expected people who are interested in near death experiences to, to, like, be very interested in the book. And they are I mean, they definitely are, but it's people recovering from grief. Hmm, that those are the people we get very long letters from. And we try to reach out and talk to talk real talk with, with just about as many people as we can, not as therapists, we're not therapists, we're just parents having lost a child. And that, and that it's, it's a shared experience, a club that no one wants to belong to. But But knowing leaving that sorrow behind that losing a child, or somebody who's close to you, that that it does, it's liberating, it gets your get your child back to you, or your loved one, because you could think of the happy times. And that that really was the greatest gift is that you lifted from the fear of death, not only for yourself, but for others.

00:52:09.750 --> 00:52:20.909
Because if you think about those things that worry people the most is the fear of death, or themselves or their loved ones.

00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:35.219
And now with this health crisis that's going on in the world today. And everything else people are really worried. And to relieve people of that fear of death is that your experiences are everything, you don't want to be in spirit now.

00:52:30.869 --> 00:53:04.590
Because you are you are alive and you are getting experiences, you want to get the most of experiences. But when your time comes, it's going to be blissful. It's not about puffy clouds and white angels with the harps and everything else. It's not like, like is sitting around and being bored. It's a beautiful thing. It's the highest high, it's the most love. It's it's all of these things. And and once you feel that, and you make it real, all of a sudden, everything's okay.

00:53:04.829 --> 00:53:50.190
Yeah, you know, it's interesting, as I listen to you talk, and you were saying that maybe I should have known this or known that. And I interviewed pmh Atwater, who studied near death experiences, probably more than anybody. And adults take somewhere usually an average between four and seven years to integrate a near death experience children's even longer. So it's not unusual for someone to take in a while to really grasp what they went through they, they've kind of got the the raw data, but as far as putting it together and the sort of information to understand what it means. And for you, it sounds like was kind of triggered by Nick's passing was kind of accelerated your integration of it, right? So then, now you've got to, you know, figure it out. So it's really interesting, I think how that how that played out in your life.

00:53:50.789 --> 00:54:40.679
And also, I think, the fact that I was a believer, a lot of people don't share that story because they feel fear that people will judge them and think they're crazy. I was the one that was kind of extracting it at him like, Oh, this is okay, this is real. I mean, I read these books I'd like after my mom and my brother passed away. I've read every book like that the life heaviness for real, like, on death and dying, like I was just like, a sponge for knowledge. Because when you lose that person, you want to know that everything is okay, you want to connect. So once he and I started talking, it was just like, I saw, like, everything that he learned is what I read in books, this is real. And and I urged him I said, you got to tell the story.

00:54:37.110 --> 00:54:47.280
You could help people he could and and he didn't want to because he's like, you know, people studied this for so long.

00:54:43.170 --> 00:54:47.280
And I wasn't a spiritual person.

00:54:47.280 --> 00:55:16.829
I just was lucky enough to survive and come back. And it's a no but you have to tell people because not only did you learn this beautiful wisdom, I mean, in the book, you'll see that there are To like really profound lessons learned from the other side, after losing your son and still being able to feel blessed, because you know where he is, I mean, that's like, that needs to be shared.

00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:30.150
Yeah, to know this, because everyone grieves terribly. We all are going to lose somebody at some point. And it is a debilitating feeling. So if you could share that wisdom, it's going to help so many people.

00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:42.090
And it is I mean, once the book came out, and we do workshops, and talk to people on YouTube videos, and all that people are really responding positively.

00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:44.039
And it's so heartwarming that we could give that gift to people.

00:55:44.070 --> 00:55:47.969
Yeah. Workshops.

00:55:44.070 --> 00:55:55.019
I'm interested here, you said, I heard this you do. Host curtains, full moon ceremonies, sound healings, guided meditation. So tell me about these things.

00:55:55.498 --> 00:57:33.389
All of those are just for our friends, we have people over our house all the time, okay. And most of the time, is that is that we'll meet people at, at public events. And we'll invite these people complete strangers, I mean, we, it's a small community this year, nearly so people know each other, our son will, and will, we're all musicians. And so we'll play music. And we'll do Kurt dance will sing and got the likes to dance. And we'll have a whole house full of people just singing and dancing and having a great time. And then we'll do something like like we'll make like Reiki ones at a beach class. I mean, it sounds silly that like talk about it. But we just have so much fun doing this. And it's and it's old people as young people, people from all different backgrounds, and you just share the idea of spirituality. And, and that's really important for us, especially with the young people, because that when I was in that place, is I was responsible for shepherding these young people, you know, to have a human incarnation. And now when we invite people, you know, about half of it is usually young people that, that I want them to know, like, if I was to be able to share one experience that I learned from that place that's made the most difference in my life, is that ethics and spirituality are an asset in your life. Now, they aren't a hindrance. A lot of times people think, like ethics and spirituality is a hinderance like, like, if you're an ethical person, oh, you're leaving money on the table, you could have got that you could have got that.

00:57:34.349 --> 00:59:18.628
But no, when you bring ethics to your work, it's the law of attraction, you begin to, to not only send great vibes into the universe, but you start to surround yourself. And with the vents that are very positive, you know, you create your own reality, by by the way you behave, it's the law of attraction. And so and so the ethics are key to that. And then also the ability to use the spirit in your everyday work, you can use everyone has intuition, that that part of you which you can feel the energy and people to use that in your everyday life, like if you're in a business meeting, instead of seeing the kids as kids see the spirit in people. And so when I'm in a business meeting, is I try to connect with everyone's spirit to find out why they are there, what's the motivating what's the physical reason, but what's the physical, the spiritual reason, and over times, I get better at this, but now I created an environment that's collaborative, as opposed to doggy dog, and then the whole benefit to everybody. And you as a person, as a spirit is so much raised because of the ethics and so and the spirituality. And so this is the message that we try to send to the kids when we're with them. And, and that, that you could be spiritual, but don't have to be poor. You know, yeah, you know, or not have assets or not have, you know, you can be that you just have to make those intelligent choices to, to really be able to make a difference in that in this world to realize that the Spirit is good, ethics is good. Those are assets in your life, and so on.

00:59:13.768 --> 00:59:19.829
And so that's a very long answer to a short question.

00:59:21.090 --> 00:59:35.039
Shops we do us about the workshop, right? And we've been we've been doing them locally, where we just we talk about the book, we discuss it we have a question and answer session. We do a sound healing, we do a little crystal.

00:59:36.570 --> 00:59:37.349
I think we're still

00:59:37.349 --> 01:00:08.699
waiting and an angel card reading just to make it fun. And it's been very well received. We've gone to yoga centers, we've gone to the historical societies, and we were branching out and then the the health crisis hit us so we kind of took a seat back for a little while, but we have bookings and in other states and stuff coming up We've done a couple of zoom kind of thing. So we're just trying to bring forth that message to everyone.

01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:39.329
Because when you know, we're all individual consciousnesses on Earth, but collectively we have a consciousness. So not only should we work on our own consciousness, but as we do that we raise the collective. So we want to share this gift with everybody, and just bring this this earth to a higher awareness so that we can transcend what's negative and fearful and anxiety produced in this world and just bring everyone to a higher level of consciousness,

01:00:39.510 --> 01:01:07.949
really, by but by being positive, and sharing it with other people, you know, yeah, they give up work for bosses are real, you know, what am I everybody on the team is really upset and backbiting and the second negativity, that's, that's the energy that someone puts out, he has authority as well. But but that's the energy as opposed to environments where, where people are very happy, and they're all working together, and life is good.

01:01:04.769 --> 01:01:24.239
That's because they're putting out that energy in the same way in that environment. If you put out that energy into the world, it's going to come back to you, but it's going to spread, other people going to take that in their life. And then they're going to bring that energy to people in their life and world.

01:01:20.190 --> 01:01:40.800
And especially now because people are afraid, you know, to be able to give that comfort by living that positive life is not about book reading. It's not about just just on Sundays, you'll be spiritual. It's about every day. And that's an asset.

01:01:37.110 --> 01:02:02.429
It's beautiful. We have a good time. We, every once in a while, we'll have some drinks, and we just, we just, we just live life and we're going to get every experience we can I'm going to go skydiving, I'm going to ride the back of full Manchu the ball for 10 seconds. I'm gonna do everything I can to get as much experience and Cathy's gonna make it her job to stop me and make sure.

01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:08.369
Really? Yeah, could you still write you know, are you riding motorcycles anymore?

01:02:09.659 --> 01:02:14.010
I am. No, but but it is a big part of my life.

01:02:14.010 --> 01:02:56.940
And, and, and I we, we we talk about this it's still in discussion. Yeah, but let's leave it at that. But but but I do love riding horses and that's tends to find the you know, fill that void. Because I just love horses that beautiful spirit animals and the our friends who had horses as moved away but but but we're going to find something if this health crisis is over with we're going to find another bond and we're gonna go horseback riding does that is that a lot of fun too. And it also helps in the recovery because it's about stabilizing your back and making small adjustments and so, so looking forward to that as well.

01:02:57.750 --> 01:03:21.300
Well, it's really interesting talking to you, Steve, because it's I could you know, as I hear you tell your story and your your big event evangelists for this now, and I can hear you saying how you've transformed and, you know, I kind of look at Kathy and I kind of wonder if Kathy is your spirit guide here and flesh to be there to kind of, you know, kind of pull you along and say, okay, you had this experience.

01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:23.070
Here's what here's what you experienced. Yeah,

01:03:23.070 --> 01:03:23.880
yeah, little push.

01:03:25.650 --> 01:04:12.989
Like I said, and she punches like a man so so I really have to watch out with that. But, but but I think you're right. So because that, you know, but I think it's like a two way street. Because that Yeah, she's very much you know, but I bring other things to and that's why I think like writing this book, is that is that the two of us I think it's like a meant to be because obviously it's meant to be by God. But we complement each other so well on so many levels. And so so she did provide that that but but also I gave the realness to to a lot of things she thought about and I'm more she's more schooled person I'm a more you know, out and doing person the two of us together we help each other grow.

01:04:13.019 --> 01:04:48.030
Yeah, yeah, well, you've got the experience to kind of push the flesh on the bones. I'm the person studied a lot of this stuff to come, I think some of you Kathy, but I haven't had any experiences. So for me, it's all a matter of hearing or reading what someone else else has done. And I think you're right to the two of you together, bring bring that and the other thing you know, Steve is you know, people talk about the near death experience. One of the one of the outcomes of a near death experience is people become transformed. They become like a different person. And and I'm just gathering from having this hour long conversation with you that you're a different person than you were four or five years ago.

01:04:48.269 --> 01:05:20.880
If the person five years ago met the person today, he'd beat the crap out of them. He would, he would end and also that's also a comforting thought in the sense that that you Every time I look back six months, I think what a fool I was, you know, and that means I'm growing. And that's also one of one of those things that that you take with you. Your openness and your willingness to find fault in yourself is a little tougher when Kathy points that things out to me, but especially when I bite them in myself, you know, the growth is good and feels good.

01:05:21.300 --> 01:05:27.750
Yeah. And there, you had like 12 universal truths that you learn. So let's just go over some of those briefly.

01:05:27.750 --> 01:05:29.219
Well, we've got a few more minutes here.

01:05:29.909 --> 01:05:37.349
On the first I universal truth, we have we spoke about was that every every is that everything has a spirit.

01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:53.610
And we spoke about that transition. And then we, the creator, and the creation are one, huh, okay. And, and that's just what I felt. And I know other people feel differently.

01:05:53.820 --> 01:07:54.420
But but but but it's what I felt when I was there is that is that we we talked about cells in your body is that is that I think that's why we are here in human incarnation is because just as I was preparing those kids to have a human incarnation is that your spirit is always been here for eternity. And it will always be here forever, it's part of the universe. But your spirit grows and develops through different incarnations over a period of time. And that as we are all connected, all of us together, are all part of the creation, everything, everything has a spirit, and the creation, and the creator are all part of the everything. The Creator and the creation are one. And so and so that was a very liberating thought or truth that I came to because that it gives a, why are we here? As we grow and develop our group consciousness, the creator and the creation, consciousness grows, this is why there are so many of us. And that's why we're in spirit, why we have these trials and tribulations while the why the earth is perfect the way it is, because it's not a perfect place. It is this place to learn and to grow. So um, so the idea that the creator and the creation are one is, is another point. Another point is that don't have hate or animosity towards anybody or yourself, not because you're such a highly evolved person and like, Oh, I'm so wonderful. I don't I don't judge anybody. No, because that's the way it is. Because that's the truth is because when I was going through my life review is that I, the worst experiences in my life, were the ones I learned the most from, and the ones that I felt the most bliss from. And so and so everyone is on their life path.

01:07:50.550 --> 01:08:05.219
And so if people do bad to you, is that is that don't allow them to do it. You know, don't be a Pollyanna and say, oh, what's going to be what what speed, I mean, that might be a life path.

01:08:01.500 --> 01:08:42.960
So bid, but don't let people do bad to you. When bad happens, let it go. Don't carry it with you let it go. Because that in the same way, the grief blocks your ability to have that that those happy memories, you know, these other things cause blockages when you hate someone, or yourself or you have anger towards yourself, or somebody else, it stops you from finding the real meaning and your experiences. So experiences are everything. That's our reason for being here. So don't have hate or animosity towards anyone who brings you those bad experiences.

01:08:42.988 --> 01:08:46.378
Yeah, those are extremely important lessons.

01:08:46.649 --> 01:09:18.118
And, you know, we experienced them, I guess, uniquely, you got something through the near death experience, but they're kind of universal for people who have near death experiences, they come back and they tell us these things, that we're all one that everything is good, everything's gonna be fine. That is experience. And I think it's really important especially as we're going through the trying times are going through right now we're recording this or anybody might be listening in the future. This is the end of November 2020 this and we were just joking before, you're kind of writing this year off, this is like the worst year ever.

01:09:14.639 --> 01:09:18.118
Everybody found opportunity

01:09:18.119 --> 01:09:18.750
for growth,

01:09:18.899 --> 01:09:29.488
but it's a perfect opportunity for growth and it's a time where a lot of people are having to sit down and be quiet and get and get still by force.

01:09:24.779 --> 01:09:38.128
Right? So it's a chance for us to to really take a deep look within and and realize that the this too can be used for good.

01:09:34.469 --> 01:09:38.128
Yes, absolutely.

01:09:38.850 --> 01:09:42.300
It would be a shame to go through all this and not to get value.

01:09:43.078 --> 01:09:55.559
Yeah and exactly and you know and with your son You know, that's something that that we share and I work with an organization called helping parents heal and you know, all of our all of our we're all parents who have lost children.

01:09:55.859 --> 01:10:13.559
So in the lovely said that It'd be a shame not to use this You know, it's like, it's not any anything any of us wish you said, you know, you'd rather have your son back, I'd rather have my daughter back. But since this has happened, we need to use this for you know, for good.

01:10:09.029 --> 01:10:13.559
It's an opportunity for growth.

01:10:13.979 --> 01:10:26.789
Well, if there's any opportunity for us to what is some something that that we can participate in some way to do to help your your mission with your, with the parents?

01:10:26.939 --> 01:10:29.220
Yeah, definitely.

01:10:26.939 --> 01:10:56.279
We'll talk. Yeah, I would love to have you guys be part of the group. Yeah, it's a great organization, I bet my daughter passed away five years ago, I've been in helping parents heal for four years. And for anybody who's listening you, my regular listeners hear me talk about it all the time. But it's a great organization, volunteer organization for parents who have lost children, because I said the word loss, we don't lose our children. But for parents whose children have transitioned, we get together and we support each other.

01:10:53.550 --> 01:11:08.039
Because it's it's so devastating, as you were saying, Cathy, losing anybody. But especially when you have a child transition, it just seems it's so out of order. So I I, your book, I think it helped people.

01:11:08.399 --> 01:11:23.880
And it's great, because I think people that are going through grief should study near death experiences, there's so many lessons, near death experiences, and people who study near death experiences can actually get some of the benefits from it. So I think your book is perfect.

01:11:20.699 --> 01:11:31.560
Because you've got both aspects in it, you've got the passing of your son, and you've got the experiences you had before that and how those two kind of tied together in your life.

01:11:32.399 --> 01:12:09.210
Now, it also makes you think that, I mean, it does make me think that that is very purposeful. I don't believe that that things are destined to happen. I think that there are likely outcomes. But but but the fact that I had this, this near death experience and a spiritual awakening, and then the loss of my son, and then the real spiritual awakening that, that if it wasn't for the near death experience. I don't know. I don't, I don't think I would have no, no, I would have reacted a lot differently.

01:12:05.729 --> 01:12:22.439
Because there's a lot of times even now, the gentleman who sold my, my son and drugs was held responsible for for his actions.

01:12:16.289 --> 01:13:08.010
And people will often say, Oh, don't you wish you That guy was was executed or all these horrible things? What would what would be happening to him? And I tell him, No, no, I want him I want him to be, I wanted to have life, I wanted to understand what he's done. I wanted to have children, I want him to take care of the kids and feel the love. I want to take his kid to wrestling and teach them how to play guitar and, and to and to watch them get married and have the kids and to make something out of this terrible thing. You know, I don't have hate or animosity towards you. And as part of that, like is so liberating. Is that is that to be free from that? I can never go back. I can't.

01:13:08.159 --> 01:13:15.960
Yeah. And that's and that's a great perspective to have, as you said, we're cells in the body. And we shouldn't be hating on each other. Right? Because we're all part of the same body.

01:13:16.350 --> 01:13:19.079
So true. Yeah.

01:13:16.350 --> 01:13:24.119
And the only taken away from yourself in the here and now too, as well as whatever may come afterwards.

01:13:24.149 --> 01:13:25.890
Yeah, absolutely.

01:13:24.149 --> 01:13:25.890
Well,

01:13:26.909 --> 01:14:25.140
advice to people who are sure, opening a new spiritual door. I like to explain it like a gym membership. Like someone read a book and they'll feel bliss for like a month because it's so helpful. But then that wanes. So we have to look at this, like, spirituality is a gym membership. You got to keep going back read the book, join a group, do yoga, do meditation watch inspiring you to videos really keep that going because once you do that more spiritual instances come to you read meet the right people, you find yourself in a higher alignment and then you're just vibrating at a high level and all this wonder comes to you so just keep at it. Like don't just stop, keep going. Yeah, really, really hone that spiritual practice just like you would do anything like education or you know, your physical body,

01:14:25.170 --> 01:14:29.250
the week the garden you let it get away from you. Have you met in a short time?

01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:34.409
Yeah, I think that's excellent advice. Thank you, Kathy. I want to let people know where they can reach you.

01:14:34.409 --> 01:14:37.710
So it's between here and there.org just the best way to reach us.

01:14:38.340 --> 01:15:20.880
We have facebook youtube, and then I and then our email address is info at between here and there.org and and if you have anything you want to share or reach out to us in any way just just just send us an email and we'll we'll get in contact with with you either through through email or or texting or give me a call, you know what, we're all in this life together and as long as as long as we can help each other, it's good. It's good. I, when my when I help other people it feel it, you know, even even when things aren't going well in your life yet, you know to reach out to that it's a it's a wonderful thing. Yeah,

01:15:20.909 --> 01:15:29.760
absolutely. Well, I want to tell you, I want to give you guys a chance to say anything, any final words you might have, on your part, so much wisdom? I'm not sure what you have left. But go ahead.

01:15:29.909 --> 01:16:33.119
Thank you, if I want to just leave you with with with two, two, Steve isms. Sure, is that life is good, and people are good, even when very sad things happen. And, and try to think about that, and meditate on that. And think about how could that be, so how that could be so and how that is so and that life is good. And people are good, even when very sad things happen. And that's really what that whole experience taught me and everything that's happened since because that it is it is. And the other thing that that I want to say is that our experiences are everything they are and just just make the most out of life. You know, a lot of times when spiritual people are going down the spiritual path, all of a sudden, they stopped living life and they do want to go on the mountain and omal day and, and cool. That's your life path. But experience like that's why you're here.

01:16:34.260 --> 01:16:36.029
Thank you, Kathy, anything you want to add?

01:16:36.329 --> 01:17:35.819
Yeah, I would just like to say that. Were we're here to love. All the Ascended Masters said the same thing, whether it was Buddha or Jesus, the purpose of life is to learn to receive love and to give love. And, and if we could all just really think about that and live from our heart center and spread that out. That's that would make the world a better place. So I just want to share that. And I just really also want to stress that when people contact us, we we do want to help like they don't feel that we're putting us off. We get so many messages we answer every single one we've had face to face meetings with people, if they're local, and they're just grieving, we don't want anyone to suffer. So if there's anything we could do, just please reach out either on on Facebook or on YouTube, just Anyway, you know, just please don't don't suffer.

01:17:36.238 --> 01:17:46.649
Thank you. Thank you, that's very generous, it's very generous of you guys offer and I really appreciate what you're doing. It's been great getting to meet both you guys and have this conversation.

01:17:47.159 --> 01:18:18.960
And we and we love you and thank you so much for your message and bringing this piece to people through your through your message and through our shared experience and losing a child and still being able to put one foot in front of the other and help other people heal. You know very I feel your energy. And Kathy and I we both love you and we want to encourage you and and we're we're glad to be into this into the spirit into this life with you and your wife and and all the people that that's part of your life. Okay,

01:18:18.988 --> 01:18:21.149
thank you. Thank you. It's been a really great meeting you guys

01:18:22.439 --> 01:18:24.869
sat now the one last thing

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