Transforming Grief Into Healing: Stories from Shining Light Parents EP 405

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Close your eyes and imagine.

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What if the things in life that cause us the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, are challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be.

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We feel like we've been buried.

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But what if, like a seed. We've been planted, and having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree.

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Now open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth, and I am your host. Brian Smith, hi there, and welcome to grief, to growth, where we explore life's most profound questions and navigate through life's toughest challenges. I'm Brian Smith, and whether this is your first time listening or whether you're regular, thank you for joining us on this journey to undercover who we are, why we're here and what lies beyond this life today, I'm honored to have with me Dolores Cruz and Allison. Allison, they are two deeply inspiring voices from the organization helping parents heal. And if you listen to the program from any amount of time, you know helping parents heal is near and dear to my heart. Have been part of the organization for about eight years myself. We are fellow shining light parents, and we'll talk about what that is, but as parents, we've each experienced the unimaginable pain of losing a child. Dolores and Alice have embarked on a path has transformed their grief into a powerful source of healings for others. Together, they've contributed to the new book shining light parents speak, and that book gathers the stories, insights and wisdom of parents who like them, have experienced the loss of a child and emerged with renewed purpose and connection. So in this conversation, conversation, Dolores and Allison will share about their own journeys through loss, the signs and spiritual connections they've encountered along the way, and how they found meaning in their children's lives and their legacies. We'll also dive into some of the central messages from shining light parents speak, we'll explore how its stories offer hope and guidance, not only to grieving parents, but to anyone seeking peace and resilience in the face of loss.

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So stay with us as we explore these stories of love, resilience and transformation, and if you'd like to join the conversation afterwards, remember you can connect with the community at grief to growth.com/community.

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If you're listening on YouTube, make sure you subscribe and like so you get all of the notifications. And with that, I want to welcome Allison and Dolores.

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Thanks, Brian, thanks so much.

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It's wonderful to see you and be on your your podcast. It's a great show. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, it's great to have you both here. Dolores has been on before, so if you haven't seen or listened that episode, make sure you check it out. But what I'd like to do is start off with I was telling them before we get started, we always like to honor our children. Our children are the ones that inspire us. Our children, they still live through us and with us. So let's start in alphabetical order. So we'll start with Allison. I was at the first right? Allison, Allison.

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So Allison, tell us about what brought you to helping parents heal. So my son, Davey, transitioned in 2016

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in a automobile accident, a single automobile accident. And before, what was interesting Brian, before he transitioned, it's in the days leading up, he started talking.

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It was really interesting. He started talking about God, and, you know, he grew up, we went to Catholic masses and but he wasn't very religious. And he did Young Life in, like high school, but again, not really talking about God. And it was the weekend before I was away, and my husband, David came home and he said, Dad, I know God exists. While my husband is kind of like, what is going on here?

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Did you use some drugs? What's going you know, what? What is all this? And David's just like, Look, I just know, and life's about. This is what life's about. You know, it's about loving people and being kind.

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And he just was going on and on, and David was having a hard time with it. He's a very, I guess, you know, left brain guy, and he was having a hard time. So on the morning of Dave's accident, he, Davey called me because I want to speak to him about it.

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And I said, Hey, Davey, your dad's having a hard time with hard time with this. I just gotta tell you, I know God exists. And I'm like, I cannot wait to talk to you about this.

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He was coming to the beach the next week, and I was like, we're going to sit down have this great conversation. And I said, but you're freaking him out. Can you just tone it down a little?

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And he said, Sure, Mom, but you never have to worry about me.

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And I was like, okay, okay. And he goes, I'll always be with you. And he said to me, Mom, you're my soul mate. You just get me. And I was like, soul mate, you know, my head, I'm thinking, I've never heard that before, except for like, in a love relationship. And he told me all these beautiful things.

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And then we hung up, and he had.

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Accident later in that afternoon. And so it sort of, when it all happened, I was like he was telling me something. He was telling me, I'll never leave you. He was telling me I'm his soul mate. And it set me on this path, and all of us on this path, because he talked to his sisters, he talked to his dad, it was like he was on this mission to talk to everybody.

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Wow. And so I needed to, I knew he was not gone. I just knew it.

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And so I needed to find a place that I could talk about that and helping parents heal. Was that is this beautiful organization of people that feel the same way I do, that they're not gone, and we can talk about that. Wow. How old was he again? 2424 and so you said he hadn't spoken like that before. No, no. He was this kind, gentle soul, right?

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He's just between his two sisters. He was the, we call him the equal sign. He would, you know, if they were fighting, he would make them laugh and goof off. He was just easy and kind.

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And so, yeah, no, it was so out of left field. Yeah, yeah. And Dolores tell us about about your son.

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Yes. Eric is the the youngest of my four children. He was 24 years old when he also had a car accident, which, by the way, we'll talk more later about the interesting coincidence, so to speak, synchronicity going on there. He was just, you know, and I think we can say this about so many of our children, just so kind and compassionate, and that's what people talked about. Immediately after his transition, the only sign or indication I got which I had no idea at the moment, but totally connected with it in the moments after hearing when they came to my door to tell him that he had been in a car accident past was that that morning, when he left work, he was still living at home. He had this brand new job.

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He was so excited about it was like a good job with good money, and he as is our custom, he goes out the door, I say, goodbye, give him a kiss. Walks up, you know, and then goes down the driveway and leaves this day. He said, Goodbye, took those two steps down, started to walk. And then he turned around, he looked at me, and he said goodbye again, which is no big deal, right?

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It's he just said goodbye again.

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He had never done that before, and I noticed it, and I just thought, I wonder why he looked back and said it again, so tiny.

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And yet, when I was told that he had passed away, I thought of it immediately, and his soul knew and was letting me know goodbye.

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It was, as you know. All know very well how awful and devastating that news is, and having no idea what to do with yourself and how to take another step or another breath, and what's the next day going to be like? It was really rough.

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I, like Allison, knew he existed, knew he was around. I started talking to him immediately. I knew he could hear me. I was crying out to Him that I what happened? I need a hug. I need you here. And that went on, and a really interesting thing did happen about 10 days later, when I went to the store and some young people were out in front taking donations for a cause for education against drug resistance, education that I was familiar with, and I told myself, I'm going to go make a donation. And when I came out and went up to this young man who was the same height as Eric and age and build and nice, friendly personality, I talked to him a little bit, wrote him a check, and when he handed me the receipt. He said, How about a hug?

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And I in that moment, nobody says that outside, you know, when you're taking donations, who's ever said that? I said, Of course, I'll always take a hug.

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Gave him a hug. Felt like I was hugging my son, and walked away, just blown away, knowing that was him, and thanking him. And just knowing he was again, it was proof that he was there. And I continued just reading whatever I could. I know we've all done the same thing. Any anything related to afterlife and spirituality and near death experiences and all that, the way I found helping parents heal, which was very interesting, is that I got this friend request from someone I didn't recognize, so I didn't respond, because I don't then I got a message saying I'm your cousin.

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And Susie's cousin on the other side, who I'd never met, but I then understood how we were connected. She said, I need to tell you about this organization, because I heard about your son, and my son also made his transition a year ago.

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So someone who I had no idea but reached out told me again, this is our language that our sons said, Hey, gotta let her know.

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You know, her son told my son, who

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made sure that I that that connection was made, and that is how I found helping parents heal again. As Allison said, amazing to be able to talk like this. I cannot talk this way to most people, and it's so wonderful to know that, you know Brian and Allison and so many hundreds of 1000s of others, actually, where we can't have this conversation. It's wonderful. Yeah, you know, it's funny, as you say that I it's something I guess I've kind of started taking for granted, because I've been part of the helping parents heal family for, I guess, about eight years now, and we've gotten together, we've had what, three conferences, and we talk to each other regularly through zoom meetings and stuff.

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So we talk this way amongst ourselves, and I frankly, don't care what other people think. So I talk this way among other people too, but I know people probably think I'm crazy.

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Yeah. Oh well, don't Yeah, it's true. It they probably do. There might be a couple who kind of start to resonate a little bit, but they've never really had that conversation. It's nice, it's good. I think it's important for us to start having that conversation and and let people become more comfortable with it, more aware of it. Yeah, Brian, I would say one of the things, I didn't want to stop talking about Davey. I told everybody I could when I got a sign, I would tell everybody I just after a while, they would call me and go, Hey, I got a sign too. I saw this. I think it's Davey. And they they shared, and they felt better, especially his friends.

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It was like a way for them to heal too. It wasn't so sad. They were like, Oh, I saw this rainbow, and I know it was him or I got they could join in with it. And my daughters, we had a we made a WhatsApp, and we put all our what we see, you know, I found this, I saw this, and we share it with each other. Mm, hmm,

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yeah, it's, it's really, it's great, because after I came back from or started, you know, working with people and helping parents heal and stuff, and probably after the conference, no before the first conference, but I talked to my friends about signs and things like that, and then I found out that, like most of them, had had signs, but these are people I'd known for literally over 20 years, and nobody ever brought it up. Has that been your experience? I see you guys nodding your heads, yeah, yep, yeah. It it's true that some people, those people, will probably let you know, oh, really, that that happened to you. You know that actually this happened to me too, and that is a really wonderful conversation to be able to have.

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Yep, so it more people have had these experiences than maybe want to admit it or talk about it. And you know what's great. We know our kids are here. We know our loved ones are not gone. We we've learned this through our experience, which was a horrible experience to go through, but I also think that's the gift in it, because I see some people and they're living this life, and I called it the treadmill of life. You know, you were just, oh, I go to school, and then I get a job, and then I have a family, and I did it. I got we got thrown off that treadmill, and we had to find out there's more to life than that. And I'm so glad I've learned that there's more to life.

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Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, that's the silver lining that we, that we talk about helping parents heal, which I know for people that maybe early on in their grief, you know, we don't want to hear about that, but for us who have been been walking this road for a while, we do realize that there's some growth that comes from it. I always hesitate to say, you know, positive or negative or whatever, but it's, there's, there's something that that transforms within us, that changes everything about the way that we live our lives.

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So you both indicate you had, like, little signs, you know, well, Allison's maybe a little bit bigger, but Dolores, you know, that little sign just that, just that turn and saying goodbye the second time, and with me, we had I didn't even know about it, though, because Shayna passed June 24 so Mother's Day, so probably six weeks before, she was with her sister and some cousins at my brother's house, and they were outside playing. Shayna was 15 and Kayla was 18, and Shayna, just out of the blue, said, When I die, I want to be cremated and have my ashes buried under a tree. Now I didn't know this, and so, you know, fast forward, six weeks later, she passes away, and we're deciding what to do with her body. And my wife and I said, we think we want to have her body cremated, but we need to get run this by Kayla and see what she thinks. And Kayla goes, Yeah, that's what she.

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Want it. And we said, Well, what do you mean? And she said, she tells us a story, and we're like, Well, were you talking about this? She goes, No. Shayna just said it out of the blue. So these are these, and as you guys are both telling your stories, I'm getting goosebumps again.

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You know, I'm getting goosebumps because we do get these. You know, life is not as as cut and dried or black and white as we think it is. There's this magical stuff going on underneath the surface. If we take a look at it,

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oh, absolutely it.

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It is there.

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There are people who just only want to see, as we all know, just this, what's right here in front of us, what we can taste and touch and see and feel you and all of that. But we all have that extra sense, that sixth sense, if you want to call it, that, that goes beyond.

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Some people are open to it. Some people are allow it in. Others don't. Or if it does come in, they'll just say, discount it and say that was strange. That was weird. What was that? And not think about it again. But yeah, it is there. And what we've learning to do in this organization helping parents heal is notice to see and trust, trust that that is our child, any other loved ones, maybe that have passed as well,

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and it's all around in so many ways. Yeah. So I'd like to ask each of you that, what were your beliefs and about the afterlife before your before your children transitioned? It's not something a lot of us think a lot about. So did you have any beliefs, and what were they?

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I'll go first. I grew up going to Catholic Church. I didn't ever resonate with the message, you know, I was brought to the church and but I liked the music and I liked the church. I that really got to me. You know, the music would just fill my heart. And so I I kind of did that with my kids, because I wanted them to have something, but I know I was searching for something more. So I started when they were a little bit older. I started going to other churches. I feel like I was, like, seeking, and I would do it on my own, and then bring them, but then they would be like, What are you doing, mom? So I was searching. And so I think this was part of my journey, you know, like I was already. I had listened to people like Abraham Hicks, which I know a lot of people would say, Wow, what is it? But I was, you know, what I knew about that I didn't understand channeling.

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I didn't understand what she said, non physical. I was like, I don't know, but I loved the loving message. And I was a worrier. I was worrying about my kids, I sometimes wonder about this, like, did part of me know something was coming and I wanted something to teach me not to worry? And her message was, focus on what you want for your kids, not what you don't. So I was there Brian. That was what was happening to me. So when this happened, I was like, whoa.

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This. This is all playing out, you know? Yeah, yeah. How about you? Dolores. I also was raised Catholic. I I did. I went to Catholic schools as well, from first grade through high school.

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I had a great experience. I was into it. I always believed that there was more

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and always prayed.

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And my prayer changed, and it became not just, you know, formal prayers, but conversation. I had all that I remember, even within that year previous to Eric's accent, which, by the way, was 2017 that I just felt joy. I would sit and look at the trees and the birds, and I just felt all that. And then when this happened, everything exploded.

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And I was angry.

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I thought I was a good person, and that this why, you know, wasn't supposed to happen. That was one of the my mantras in the beginning, this was not supposed to happen. I So, and I in my prayers, I was angry at God and saying, You better effing explain to me what's going on here. I want to know why and the interesting. And that's what I said every night. I was no longer sweet. I was direct about that. As time went by, the books came to me, and I began to understand more and more this idea I had of God in a box was just expanding and expanding, and still isn't, hasn't stopped.

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And so now I there's just the idea of heaven, I knew there was. But now hearing near death experiencers and other people with maybe mediums or whoever that have more to say about that, it's been so comforting and helpful to know more details. The other thing, by the way, is heaven. I used to think was somewhere far away, and it was tucked away, and that's where everybody went, you know. And then.

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Day, you'd go there and oh no, it's here. It's right here. And so that's something else I've learned, and that's why they are here. And God is not a man in the sky, you know, dredging you that it's the most is the Creator. God is the Creator, the source of all love, not male or female, this whole energy. So there's just so much, and it's continuing. And I think it's just awesome. It's an I'm so I'm glad to know what I know now.

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Yeah, you said something. I think a couple of things, I think there are I could really resonate with. You know, this idea of God as being a man in the sky, which I think a lot of people let's, I'm gonna say, outgrow right at some point. And then then they said, well, there's, there's, then there's no creator, there's no intelligence. It's just all, it's all random, because they see what they were taught in Sunday school, and it doesn't really make a lot of sense. And and even if you believe, as we were taught, that there's a heaven, it's a long way away, right? It's out of touch, it's out of sight, it's out of reach, and we'll get there one day. But did either one of you? Well, you said, Delores, you immediately start communicating with Eric.

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How about you? Allison, oh, yeah, immediately. And it was interesting.

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I was and I didn't, but I didn't trust it right away, right? I was like, I know I'm doing this, and I'm hearing him. I'm like, I'm still your mom, I'm still your mom.

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And I hit, I'm here, I'm still, you're still my mom. Yeah, you're still my mom, you know.

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But it was an Abraham Hicks. I put in abraham hicks loss of child like day three, and she, she says, I can make you feel better right now. And I'm like, and she said, your child's not gone.

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And I go, I knew it, you know? I was like, hi, I know that's what I feel. And so then it was just, I had to learn about the afterlife. I had to know where he was. I had to, I feel like I got my PhD and still getting it in the afterlife. And it, you know, I've had amazing experiences where you cannot explain, you can't explain what happened, except that I'm connected to him. Yeah, let's talk about some of the signs you guys have gotten from your kids.

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Give me one or two of your favorites.

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Well, by the way, I want to Allison had a beautiful story of a connection with David at a wedding. And when we discussed this before, I hadn't brought up that, yeah, and I'd look, that's, this is the one I'd like to start with. And then I have another really cool one, but also at a wedding. First time you go, this was about a year and a half. My daughter was in a friend's wedding, and there I am thinking, Oh, how am I going to get through this knowing I will never go to my son's wedding?

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You know, we get there, it's It's lovely, it's outdoors, everything's fine. And just like Allison told in her story, as soon as the mom comes down with with her son. I just the tear. I just, I just stood the, you know, I didn't, I wasn't noisy or anything, but oh my gosh, the tears were just pouring down my cheeks. And in that moment for me, in my third eye, was Eric.

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He was there in a dark suit, a suit with a dark blue shirt and a tie, and he was just there for me. And this went on from about 15 minutes, I assumed I was fine crying because everyone would go, Oh, it's a wedding. You know, people crying, right? So I didn't think anyone was going to wonder. But I wasn't leaving yet. I sat through the ceremony, and then, of course, after that, I had to go to the restroom and clean my face and everything, and just feel better a little bit. But he was there, and he was letting me know he was right there. It was clear as day. It was amazing. And the other thing I would love to share when I went to Prague with my husband and two friends, couple, a couple, and I knew Eric had spent time during his study abroad. He had gone to Madrid, but he then backpacked around, you know, different cities in Europe. So we went to Prague, and I'm like, Oh, I know you were here, Eric, this is cool.

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Oh, yeah. And we went to the castle. And in the castle is this very old church, I think it's from the 13 or 1400s the saint Vita. I believe I could be wrong. But anyway, you gotta climb this spiral staircase of about 200 steps. Maybe, no, maybe it was more 250 or something, but it was really quite A a trek up. I'm we're going up this, you know, I'm in front and my husband and then my two friends behind, and we're kind of laughing, and because we're huffing and puffing, and it's like, oh, the old people gotta get up there. I look back and laughing. And right between my husband and my friend Linda, I.

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Is Eric, and he was a little holographic, a little bit of a translucent, slightly, but not totally solid, obviously, but he I see what he was wearing, his jeans, his shirt, his T shirt is, you know, kind of a jacket, Army colored jacket. And he's just kind of like he's walking up with us when we get to the top. And these were friends. I could tell that too. I said Aaron was walking up there with us. They loved it. They were all like, Wow, that's amazing.

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So in that case, I was able to just see him for a few seconds, I guess, wow. Yeah.

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That was like, Okay, you're with us. Great. Yeah. How about you, Allison, so the story Dolores was talking to was, I've had so many but this one was the one where I knew I'm talking I'm connecting with Davey. So right after Davey transitioned, we had to go to a wedding a couple months after. And I was like, Alright, I can do this, because my girls are in the wedding. And they're like, we're not gone. You know, you still gotta be there for us. So I go to this wedding, and I'm doing great, and then the Mother Son dance happens. I wasn't even thinking this, and all I thought was, I will never have that Mother Son dance. So I just got up like the Lord said, and I walk, went to the bathroom, and just did the wave of pride. You know how it comes you just, you don't even expect it, right?

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You'll be in the grocery store, and it'll just happen to you, but it happened, um, and then the weddings after that, my family would put like a baby in my arms during that time, or do something, right? Well, my nephew, who was Davey's counterpart, my sister's son, they were best buddies, was getting married, and I went into meditation a couple weeks before the wedding, and I, because I do that with Davey, I will sit in meditation, I'll talk to him.

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And I said, I don't want to be sad at this wedding.

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I don't want to I wanted that dance with you. And he's like, Mom, I want you to close your eyes. I don't want you to picture us dancing. So I picture that. But then he did something, and he showed me. I'm at the wedding, Billy's wedding with my sister, and Billy and my sister are dancing, and my sister stops halfway through and comes and gets me and brings me on the dance floor, dancing with Billy.

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And then it turns into Davey and I dancing. And I'm like, Okay, I got my dance. That was beautiful. I'm feeling good. I get to the wedding, and at the time's coming, where my sister's going to dance with Billy, and my mom comes and gets me, and she's kind of holding me, and they're out there dancing. And halfway through, my sister comes and gets me and brings me out to Billy, and I'm like, what this is actually happening, and I'm dancing with Billy, and I transform, and I'm dancing with Davey, and my mind is exploding because I'm like, I saw this. He told me this would happen. How is this happening? You know? So the next day, I say to my sister, you're not going to believe this, but I knew this was going to happen ahead of time. Davey told me, and she goes, you're not going to believe this, but I was out on a walk, and I Davey came to me and said, you have to do this. And Billy called me and said, Mom, I got this message from Davey, we have to do this.

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And they were the only two that knew, and they were afraid to do it, because they said that they might look like their grandstanding or doing some, you know, something that would upset my family. And they were like, we just knew we had to do it. So I knew in that moment, okay, I'm communicating with them, wow, wow.

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And anyone can do this, Brian, this is what I'm saying. I don't feel like I have any special gifts I never have. And I think that was maybe one of my challenges I feel now in this lifetime, is to not have these instant gifts, but have to trust, trust in what I think. So I get quiet. I picture him coming and sitting talking to me. It's and my body, you know what? Brett, my body doesn't know the difference that he's not sitting right there and not physically with me. My body comes down. It gets Oh, feels so good. And so I got used to that, because I do that all the time. I talk to him on walks. I talk to him when I'm driving. I've learned my mantra I said every day was I want to feel you so spiritually. I don't miss you so badly physically.

00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:59.920
And that's what I've done. Wow, my body now just is used to him of being around, yeah, anybody can do that. Anybody could, yeah, you know, it's interesting when we talk about special abilities. And I'm, I'm a very rational left brain person engineer, and I tell people I don't have intuition, you know, but I realized that we all do, and we get things different ways. And sometimes people out no other people say things in certain way that sounds so certain. And I was, I remember when I was a little kid in church, people would say, God told me this, or God told me that, and I would say, God's not talking to me. What's going on?

00:29:57.819 --> 00:29:59.920
Why is God talking.

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:10.380
And all these people, but he doesn't talk to me. So I'm always, I'm also the person who's always asking questions. So I'm like, I would go to people like, Well, what do you mean, God told you, did you was it like a voice in your ear?

00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:42.700
Was it a burning bush, like Moses got I mean, how did God tell you this? Oh, no, it's just kind of a, you know, it's like a, knowing, it's a thing that, you know, it's internal voice, whatever. I'm like, Oh, well, I got that. So sometimes it's we have to trust, you know, different ways. And it's interesting, because Dolores said, you know, that she saw Eric. And so when I was I would, you know, compare to other people? I'm like, Well, I've never seen Shayna, or I've never heard Shayna. People say I felt them touch me. I've never had that experience. So we'll have different experiences.

00:30:44.980 --> 00:30:45.279
Yeah,

00:30:46.839 --> 00:31:08.579
so when it so for people that are listening, and I'm going to talk about this early stages of grief, because for a lot of times, people are listening to us, and they're like, they have no idea what I'm going through. Look, look, they're just, they're doing great. They're fine. They're, you know, talk about what it what it's like in those early stages, because people think they're stuck, and I think they're going to be there forever.

00:31:11.039 --> 00:33:13.559
Well, I'll be glad to, yeah, share that I felt like I was in a deep, dark hole and abyss. There was no light. I had no idea how I could get out of it. I didn't think I could ever see light again. I didn't think, certainly, didn't think I would ever feel joy again. I did not know how I live. How, how could I keep living a life without my son and little by little. Again, you know there was a lot of love and support around I have a feeling you had that same experience from family and friends and but again, by the readings that I did, it just started to propel me along. And I do want to mention one thing I know, that people I've heard say that they even though that they don't want to laugh or smile because it would be disrespectful. Now, even though I didn't know how I could ever live again, I just I didn't, it's not that I didn't think it would happen. I just didn't know how. So it's not like if it were to happen, I was going to push it away when it started happening, when the days came, and I did feel like I could laugh, and I did feel I could smile when I finally was able to look at photos again of him, which for me it was, it wasn't that long, maybe like two months, and then I could start to look or hear music, because he was a musician, and it was just too painful. I let it in. I didn't want to not and I knew that that was what he wanted, and I allowed it. I just allowed the light in, and little by little, and then the day came where I said, You know what? I think I can feel joy again. I couldn't believe that was possible, but it was something that I allowed. Yeah, yep, I was in that dark hole too. Dolores.

00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:48.099
I think we all probably felt like it was just black. And I You're like, how am I going to get out of this? But it was my faith, I have to say. And this is what I always wanted for my children, is to have a little bit of that faith. And it was that faith that got me out, like, you're not alone. I did feel God's hand, whatever love the god the hand of love, you know, that was like, just keep at it, don't give up. And it was I knew I had to take care of myself. I knew maybe I can't handle this mentally right now, but I gotta walk. I gotta keep walking. I gotta keep eating.

00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:52.480
And so I kind of did that on autopilot, like I gotta take care of this physical body, because grief

00:33:53.680 --> 00:34:15.480
is horrible on your body. And I sometimes I don't know this is kind of weird. I think this now maybe grief is so horrible because your soul knows they're not gone, and your soul's like, Wait a minute. What are you doing this for? They're not gonna you know, but grief feels horrible, and I knew I just had to take care of myself and slowly reading about other parents.

00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:39.139
That's why this book is so important. Brian, this would say I couldn't wait to find books of parents who believed their kids were still with them. I wanted to find out what they did. I I read your book. I read so many books about parents who found their way. And here's a book with 130 parents telling you they're not gone and their messages and their signs. So it's kind it's an awesome book.

00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:59.679
I would have loved this then, so I would suggest it for all new parents in this process. Because when you once you see there's other parents and there's hope, you're like, Okay, I mean, I would say the first year for the people listening is the toughest. It's your first Christmas, it's your first Mother's Day, it's your first birthday. But this was what I what I would suggest. Mm.

00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:17.400
Yeah, on those days, like your child's birthday, I went out and did an act of kindness with Davey. I was like, Davey loved IHOP, so we I put like he was going with me, and I went and bought somebody's meal. I didn't, you know, I just went. I went to the front and I said, Look, can I teach you a manner?

00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:25.460
Talk to your manager. Here's money. Please buy somebody's meal. And then I left, and I looked and I was like, Davey, that felt good, that felt good.

00:35:22.579 --> 00:36:03.420
So I try and do like, acts of kindness, like I'm doing it with him, like, do something that'll make you feel like you're connected to your child, uplifting with your child. And that helps. Yeah, we asked people, this was the other thing we did. We asked people not to send flowers, not to bring food, but do acts of kindness and post them on Facebook. And every day I woke up and I wrote, I read the most beautiful messages from people doing acts of kindness in Davies name. And it even for two years this little eighth grade class, this teacher took her eighth grade class and did acts of kindness with them for Davey.

00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:17.940
And these little kids wrote me beautiful letters, and they told me what they did, and I was blown away, and it lifted my soul. So every day, I felt like Davey was still there, and I slowly came out and came out.

00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:27.260
And you know, it was like the I could see the light. I think everybody should do this. I think doing acts of kindness instead of flowers is so much better. Yeah, it's interesting.

00:36:24.139 --> 00:36:30.199
I don't think I've ever heard that before, but I do. I do love that idea,

00:36:31.820 --> 00:36:59.619
and I think it's really important, and I appreciate you guys being frank about sharing that, because, you know, a lot of times we try to put on a brave face, and people don't. They don't see what's happening when we're when we're home alone, and they don't, of course, know the thoughts in our heads. And that feeling of like, I don't want to be here anymore, I think it's very, very common for parents, especially of young children. And 24 is relatively young.

00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:07.559
It's like, you know, you want to be with your kid. You want to, you want to know they're okay.

00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:40.400
And I think I always say for mothers, especially, because they're part of your body, but for fathers too, because as a father, when you especially have daughters, it's your job to protect them. And so when you're not there to protect them, you know, you're like, Okay, I got to get there. I got to be where they are. So it's, it's important for people to understand that feeling is really normal. Because people think they're going crazy. They think maybe they've become suicidal. Is different, because suicidal is when you're actually making plans to do this. I don't know, for me, it was never planned. It was just like, I don't want to be here. I don't care, you know, I don't care anymore.

00:37:41.420 --> 00:38:20.659
So I think it's important to put that out there for people to understand what you're going through, what you're feeling is normal, and that first year go ahead, I did. I remember saying that in my head, but I heard Davey say, Mom, what about the girls? What about Dad? Yeah, I'll be here. I'll always be here. And I was just like, you're right, you know, I Right, right. Yeah, that's that is a real good point. Dolores, how about you? Because for me, I had, the first thing I had to do was live for my my wife and my other daughter. I didn't care about me, but it's like, okay, I guess I have to stay here because they're gonna be very upset if I go.

00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:22.280
Yeah,

00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:35.000
same, same here with what you're saying. I if something had happened to me, that would have been fine with me. If I, you know, whatever, I wasn't going to make anything happen. I wasn't going to end my life.

00:38:36.139 --> 00:39:02.159
But I did know that they wouldn't want that to happen. So I knew that intellectually, even though for many months, I still said, Well, yeah, but if something happens to be that's fine, yeah, but now I don't want I want to stay. I want to be here. I want to be with my three surviving children and my husband. I now have a granddaughter. I do want to be here.

00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:22.940
And what helps is I have this other relationship now with Eric, something that my therapist had brought up early on. I had an awesome, great therapist for about a year and a half, and she had told me in the beginning, well, you will have develop a new relationship with Eric. And at the beginning, I didn't know what she was talking about. I totally understand it.

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:41.320
Yes, Eric is here. He is He sees everything. Would that happen? I know people say that it's awful that they've missed things. They haven't missed them, right? We miss seeing their reaction. We miss seeing their interaction.

00:39:37.699 --> 00:39:50.800
We don't get to see that. I would love to see that, but no that they're with us and he's here. So yeah, it's total shift.

00:39:45.219 --> 00:39:59.920
It does shift. And I would say, Brian, oh, sorry, no, go ahead, please. Um, one of the things David said to me was, you were my soul mate. So that was something too. I was like, What?

00:39:56.920 --> 00:39:59.920
What did he mean by that? And.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.280
When I read Robert Schwartz, and I saying it right?

00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:22.760
Soul plan book, I was like, oh, that's what he was talking about that we because when I first thought of I thought, God's not mad at me. I didn't do anything wrong, like Dolores. I've been a good person. Why does this happen to me? Right? I didn't think, Well, why do some kids live and some kids don't. I mean, it just haphazard, right?

00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:27.920
And then I thought the soul plan that Davey and I planned this. I thought at first, no way would I have planned this horrible thing. It is too painful.

00:40:27.980 --> 00:41:27.800
There's no way. And then I sat with it, and I thought, that is the only explanation. That is the only explanation. And you know what? I'm not going anywhere. I am going to get this right, so I never have to do this again. Yeah, yeah. That's a great point, because I remember being at the first helping parents heal conference, and to a person, we're all like, we're not coming back. We're not coming back. And I thought about, you know, we have these things we do in life, and we'd say, I've heard a lot of times when women have their first child, they're like, I'm never doing that again. It was too painful. But then, you know, a few months later, a couple years later, like, Yeah, I'll do it again. So I try not to say, Never that. But I don't want to, well, I want to make my daughter proud. I think you guys probably feel the same way too. I Shayna, I know she would be like, You got to stay there. You got to do the work. And she'd be very she's going to be on me if I don't, because I know I'm going to face her one day. I'm not worried about being judged by God. I'm worried about listening to Shayna.

00:41:30.019 --> 00:41:56.199
Yeah, yeah. I have again along this whole new journey spiritual. Of course, I it's more and more spiritual to me. And by the way, when I when I said those prayers, were so hard to God, eventually they just became thank you so much for all of this, for for every day, for the things, the beauty and all of that. But I know I'm here for a reason.

00:41:57.699 --> 00:43:07.260
Now I get that, and boy, do I want to make sure I do whatever, and whether or not I understand that reason that's okay, I don't have to know exactly what it is. I trust I'll be led. I trust that things will unfold as they should, but I really hope that I am doing everything I can here that I'm supposed to do so I don't want to go anywhere. Yeah, I just interviewed someone pretty recently. In fact, I just released the podcast. And, you know, we have this thing. We think of things as it's got to be this or that, either I planned my whole life and I'm in control of my whole thing, or it's the opposite, that God's in charge of it. And why did God do this to me? And I love the way she described it. She said, It's like a dance, you know, you have, you have a partner, and we make these unspoken covenants with what we call God, and we say, okay, as long as I'm a good person, as long as I do this and this, and then you're going to protect me and my family. And then when something happens, then we feel like either God broke his promise or we must not have kept our end. But, you know, we were never promised that, you know that that that was a one way contract? Yeah,

00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:41.800
right. I no longer believe it God's, it's God's fault. Yeah, you know God that made this happen, or it didn't listen to my prayers. You know, I know that's how it's we grew up that way, but that all had to shift. And it's I, you know, and I, like I said before, I don't understand all of it. And I, I come to a place where that's okay, that I don't understand all of it, but I know there's some it's all

00:43:43.659 --> 00:44:19.559
ultimately good and as it should be. And I know that's a tough one sometimes to to bring up, but then knowing that they're not gone, I feel like helps, because if you said to me, Davey's gone, you can never talk to him again. That's too painful. And so those parents that aren't talking to their child, I want to say to them, just fake it if you have to in the beginning, because it your body will feel so much better. It's like, and then you start connecting with them, and you're like, is that real? I know you guys are. I think you're caring listeners, right?

00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:34.820
So I'm on with people all the time, and they'll be like, I just never hear them. I just don't understand it. And I'll go, Well, what would your child say right now about what you're saying? And they go, Oh, they're like, Mom, you you hear me. And I go, you just connected. You just gave me their personality.

00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:36.920
You just did it. And they're like, really? I'm like, yeah, yeah,

00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:49.179
yeah. Well, if either one of you ever taken any medium, mediumship training, I admit I have not okay. I did.

00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:59.920
I did just a little bit and and I again, I've always said I'm not intuitive. And then what would happen is they'd say, make a connection, and I would, I would just make something up.

00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:59.920
And sometimes it was wrong. But.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:23.420
Couple times it was like, I just, it was right, and it was weird stuff. So what you were saying, Allison, is, you know, when you when you think you're hearing your child's voice, you know, trust it. It's it may not sound like their voice. It could be like the little voice inside your head, but, you know, their personality, and that's what I get from Shayna, you know, I so I think that that's a really good piece of advice to people.

00:45:23.659 --> 00:46:12.780
And like you said, sometimes we fake it till we make it and then, and then look for those synchronicities of signs that back it up. Mm, hmm, yeah, yeah, and the automatic writing as well. Similarly, yeah, that I have done, that I have done, where you sit with a journal and ask, you can write out a question to your loved one, your child, and whatever's coming to you, whatever it is, just just write it down. Don't, don't decide whether or not you think it's really, you know, just just write it all, ask a question, write an answer. And I did that and purposely just kind of set it aside. Looked at it a week or two later, it went, Wow, that's Eric, you know. And so it's, again, it's that trust and getting out of the way, I guess.

00:46:12.780 --> 00:47:27.320
And that is a form of mediumship, because mediumship is just being, being in the middle, right? So automatic writing is a way, kind of getting your your brain out of it, and you just write what comes to you. So it's another it's just a way of I think what we have to do to make that connection is to turn off that left brain that's analyzing everything in whatever way is possible. So for some people, it might be meditation. It could be automatic writing using a pendulum. You know, people, people use different things, whatever works, whatever works for you, to make that connection. But it comes down to the thing that we're all talking about in common is that they're still here. You know, you have, you have to start with at least the belief that they might still be here. Yep, and not see them with your eyes, feel them with your heart. Yeah, right. And somebody, one of the parents in the book, said it's not a relationship relationship anymore. It's a soul ship. And I thought it's kind of cool. It's a new language that you have to learn. Yeah, so let's talk about the book. We've talked we've talked about a little bit. It's how many stories, how many parents? 130 Wow. Okay, and so they're sharing their transformation. Signs, what are they? What are they sharing in the book?

00:47:28.519 --> 00:48:35.119
Well, it it all started with Mark pit stick had done these YouTube interviews through helping parents heal. He had four to six parents per hour long session with the help of Lynn Hallahan, and ask the same six questions to each person, and at some point, well, there's he tells the story beautifully, but Allison's son Davie came to him and told or dirt right in the middle of one of one of the interviews, and told him that you need to make this into a book. So that's just a very I don't know if Allison wants to tell more about that, but so that, yeah, the questions were in regards to, of course, talking about their child, how they found helping parents heal, but also if they've had any connections with their child, and if they've what they've learned in this whole journey so far, and do and the hardest question mark would say is, do you believe there was maybe a purpose or a timing behind this that they were able to answer?

00:48:35.239 --> 00:49:15.000
So that's, what are the those turned questions turned into chapters of the book with all the various responses from the parents and so Allison, do you want to add anything to that? I just think it was so I know we got to really read through it and transcribe it and everything. So I got the benefit of it. And you just hear these amazing stories of people who went through the horror and tragedy but came out on the other side, and all they've learned is so powerful, even for me. You know, being eight years in, I was like, wow, this is so cool to read this and see this.

00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:15.000
Yeah, there's something about

00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:26.659
knowing that other people have been what you've been through, and even though we know it intellectually, yes, other people have had children in car accidents or children lost to suicide or fentanyl or whatever.

00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:52.480
You still feel at least, I felt very lonely like nobody really understands, you know what I'm going through. And when I started doing the research for my book, I realized the percentage of people who lose a child, especially when you're over the age of 50, which I was when Shayna transitioned. It's not that rare. It does happen, and we don't know when we walk out and we see people, we don't know that they've lost a child.

00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:59.440
So there's something about helping parents feel that, does it make you feel less alone? You know, being a part of this organization? Yeah.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:21.739
Yes, absolutely, it's it really can blow you away when you see, let's say, for example, on the Facebook group, you know, all the postings made by parents or just going to the conference, and all those people on all the children, all the badges with the beautiful photos of their children and all the stories about their children.

00:50:23.059 --> 00:50:31.460
Yes, you you've you realize I'm not the only one. I'm far from the only one. This happens to a lot of people,

00:50:32.659 --> 00:50:52.360
and it somehow provides some strength, I guess, and also the message that were shining light parents, I didn't know, I don't know about you guys, but I couldn't be, I couldn't be in grief forever. I was like, This is too uncomfortable. It was like, I wanted to crawl out of my skin.

00:50:52.360 --> 00:51:20.780
I didn't know how to it was so painful. Yeah. And so when shining light parent, I let Davey light shine through me. I want to be the best I can be. I living life with him and let him come through to me. I loved that idea, and I I love that. I do feel like a shining light parent. But what's interesting, I feel like Davey's with me now all the time, and now it's more about learning about my own soul. It's like I've kind of transitioned into learning because I know he's with me.

00:51:20.780 --> 00:51:46.960
He's right here. So now it's about learning more about myself and my soul. I agree you've I love what you said about grief being so painful, and it's weird, because we will often hold on to the pain, because we associate the pain with our loved one, and we think if we let go of the pain, we're letting go of them. And that's, that's and it is a choice. What we're talking about is a choice.

00:51:43.960 --> 00:52:06.539
And I learned it really early, back when I was like, I don't want to be here, and if I am, I'm never going to heal, because I'm going to show the world that, you know, I love my daughter so much that I was never the same. And I made this vow internally, and I went to a meeting of another grief organization, and this woman walked in, she was 10 years in.

00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:09.960
She was miserable. She made everybody in the room miserable.

00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:30.320
In five minutes, she was still angry. It was like her daughter just passed the day before, or, I would say, died, because I think she thought her daughter had died. And I came back from that, and I'm like, I can't do this. I can't, even though I don't want to heal right now. I can't do this to my wife. I can't do this to my daughter. I can't do this other people than around me. I don't have a choice, right?

00:52:31.699 --> 00:53:36.619
Yeah, there is some stigma. Or I get I don't know what the right word would be, but for people who believe that maybe that's how they connect, maybe their way of connecting with the loved one is through the pain. Yeah, that's what, yeah, and so what, maybe they don't believe their loved one or their child, let's say, is right there. Maybe they believe their child, if they exist at all, as far away. So therefore, that pain is a way to connect, whereas what we have found, and a lot of people have found, is that since they are here and we do have a relationship with them, it doesn't have to be painful. And I know that Brian, you and I took David Kessler's course and the education educator certification, or grief educator. And again, his basic message is to remember them with more love than pain, and you don't have to be in pain all the time to still connect. Yeah.

00:53:32.420 --> 00:53:40.179
And, you know, it's funny, I was talking to someone earlier, because David's course is, is non

00:53:41.260 --> 00:54:10.619
religious, non right? Non spiritual, yeah. And I was talking earlier, and I said, you know, when I work with people, I can work with you if you're not spiritual, but it's gonna be a lot harder, because, you know, I don't know if you believe your loved one is gone. I mean, you can, I mean, you can heal. I mean, you can, but it's going to be a lot harder. And people, they ask about helping parents, yeah, because we're non dogmatic.

00:54:10.619 --> 00:54:22.099
First of all, we're not, we're not faith based, we're not spiritually based. But people have said, if you come into the organization, we will not force you to believe anything. We won't. We don't have any dog.

00:54:19.860 --> 00:54:28.460
We're going to preach, but you're probably going to start believing it after a while, because it's just, you're going to be surrounded by it. Yeah,

00:54:29.719 --> 00:54:59.920
and I get that people are going to your first year, you're going to have those waves. I called like, you're you're like, Okay, I can breathe. I'm walking, and then something hits you, you see something, and you're just, and I think you just got to go through the waves. And then over the years, the waves get less, and as you connect with your child, you feel them more. And so then it changes you feel the more. As time goes on and the waves are less, that's what I'd say. There is hope everybody can do this, yeah, and when, also, when the waves.

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:22.579
Hit. People will think, Okay, I just took a step backward. I thought, I thought I had healed. But then my I had to go to a wedding, and I had to, I had to watch the first dance. I remember with Shayna because she was 15 when her friends started graduating from high school, and they were inviting us to the high school graduations. And then when they started graduating from college.

00:55:22.940 --> 00:55:44.980
And, you know, all those, all those milestones, even though they might be two, three years later, you know, at those big events, that's when you you really miss them. You know, when my nephews got married, because she was really, really close with, you know, with her cousins. And so those events will, will bring those things back. So the the waves may have turned into ripples for a while, but they can still, you know, hit you every once while, even later on.

00:55:46.719 --> 00:56:09.780
Oh yeah, they they will. And some people are a little bit offended by the word healed, right? I don't know if you've heard that. I've heard that brought up more recently, and what I always say is healing will go on for the rest of our lives here on Earth. So we're going to continue. It will evolve and it will shift, yeah?

00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:56.619
But it's not like one day we'll go, Oh, I'm done healing and I'm good. You know, everything's fine, because, of course, as you've been mentioning, you know, we're, we're going to continue to have those feelings, and the missing. The Missing isn't going to go away. Yeah, I typically don't use the word healed. It's just it's so common in the vernacular today, so sometimes it does come out. But I remember one of the first Greek, the first grief counselor I had, and she used a great analogy. Said, you know, right now, your whole your heart is a big hole in it, and it's been ripped open, and it's raw around the edges, and it hurts, you're always going to have that hole, but the edges will heal, will heal up. So there will always be that, that place and grief, I also wouldn't say, based on that, is grief is not a disease.

00:56:56.619 --> 00:57:02.099
It's not something to be healed.

00:56:56.619 --> 00:57:53.860
But that, that deep, raw, I don't want to be here pain. That can be, that we can we can move on from we can move forward and say, Yeah, I missed them. Yes, I wish they were, they were here, but I'm going to enjoy my life because, well, no, I wish they were. They are here. We just was we're talking about. They are here physically, but they're not here in the way that we would like for them to be here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can have amazing moments when you connect, when you just start believing it, just be open to it, that's what I would say. And like I said, even if you have to fake it. But when you connect, when you just get put everything else aside, just pretend you're talking to your child and feel their love, and get in that moment. Don't think about anybody else, just be there. You can feel such love. It's unbelievable. And I think maybe because they're helping you connect to your soul, that's kind of how I see it. Okay.

00:57:54.340 --> 00:58:01.199
Where did that come from? Did somebody do that? Did you see that? Oh, my gosh. Oh,

00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:05.880
yes, we know where that came from.

00:58:07.260 --> 00:58:23.000
Okay, okay, that was fun. So for anybody that's listening to the podcast, not watching a zoom, this thumbs up with bubbles around. It just came up. And I know there's, I know there's a zoom reaction thing, but I don't know if you triggered that somehow, but it's not triggering now, so I don't know.

00:58:24.739 --> 00:58:27.500
Oh, my goodness, that was cool.

00:58:24.739 --> 00:58:35.360
And what I love about reading about other people's signs is signs come in all different ways.

00:58:32.300 --> 00:59:44.920
Yeah, and you have to be open to them, you know, like the sign you said about the dance at the wedding, because if you don't pay attention. It's the timing of the way things happen sometimes other than thing that happened. So just you know your nephew coming and your sister saying, Have the dance. That's not necessarily that big of a deal, but the fact that you knew that it was coming makes it a big deal. And I don't think I've ever forget this one, because it was, it's I was like listening to a podcast one morning, and this woman said, My daughter sends me a sign that when I'm out somewhere strange, will walk up and say, I knew your daughter, and I thought, that's not a sign. Someone walking up and saying I knew your daughter, that just they knew your daughter and they saw you, and they just, there's just saying that. It's not a sign. So I go on my walk that morning, I walk the same route. I've been walking the same route for years, and I'm walking past this house I walk by every single day, and this woman walks down the driveway, and she's got a really long driveway, like, I don't know, 30 yards or something. She walks up to me as I'm walking past her mailbox. I take out my earbuds, and I'm like, yes, she goes. I just wanted to let you know I see you walking every day, and my daughter knew your daughter.

00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:52.179
They were in Girl Scouts together, and I'm like, Hey, I guess that's a sign.

00:59:48.760 --> 00:59:52.179
Someone's telling you exactly.

00:59:52.179 --> 00:59:52.900
It's a sign,

00:59:54.219 --> 00:59:59.920
yo? I have a quick one, yeah, please kind of explain so my youngest daughter.

01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:47.320
Was having a birthday, and I was struggling what to get her, because the year before, she had turned 21 a week after Davey's transition, so it was not a good birthday. So it's her next birthday, and I'm in I'm like, Davey, what do I get her? And he's like, remember we used to get this one. I'm not hearing a voice, you guys. It's like in my mind, right? And he said, remember Dad and I used to get Tiffany. We would go to Tiffany's for you girls and get you a little something. Go get this infinity necklace, this one thing. Okay, I'm going to go do that. So I go do that. I get it for and the morning, I give it to her on her birthday. And I read Suzanne Giesemann message daily. I love her message every day. And the message that day was an infinity sign, and explaining what the infinity sign means. And I went

01:00:48.699 --> 01:00:59.440
and I wrote Suzanne, I said, Thank you for being my sign today. And for that kind of thing, you just have to pay attention. It's not like, hey mom, I'm here. I'm talking, you know what? I mean.

01:00:57.159 --> 01:01:16.139
It's like, you have to just pay attention to things right, right? And again, I think that's what, like reading other people's signs can help you do, because you start to notice and you and you realize that it's that it's so, yeah, we're coming to the end of our time, but I really appreciate you guys doing this.

01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:36.079
What you do with helping parents heal, being caring, listeners, we've talked about, because people just so you know you don't have to be or not really membership organization. But if you want to reach out to somebody, we have people that are called caring listeners, you can call up and talk to like, like Dolores and like Allison.

01:01:31.340 --> 01:01:36.079
So appreciate you doing that.

01:01:36.440 --> 01:01:42.820
Anything you want to share about the book, helping parents heal or yourselves before we before we sign off for the evening,

01:01:44.019 --> 01:03:25.159
I would love to bring up the it's the amazing synchronicity that started this whole thing off was that it was interesting the first time I and Allison and Nancy haina and Anne Marie Taplin got together on Zoom. Was we're just beginning this process, this long, six month or more, process of gathering everything, and we talked about our children. It turns out four. Now, Nancy does have two sons, in spirit, but of her one son, Joey, I believe, and the three of us, all of the boys were in their 20s and passed by way of a auto accident of some sort, or a motor vehicle type accident. And we thought, really the four of us, it just so happens that they're all boys, and they all was related to a road type accident, which felt very much like, Okay, this is a sign Hello. And they're all saying, Hello, yes, you are supposed to be doing this. And it felt very validating that we were there together. Yeah, so yeah, just there's for anyone again, as we've already mentioned, that is starting this journey, or even if you've been on it for a couple of years, there's just so much validation of not only how difficult this has been and what you've gone through, but that your child is here, the signs, of course, like you said, Brian, there's just so many different kinds, and they're All mentioned in the book is just one after another.

01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:38.539
And to really be able to take a look at what, what have we learned from this? Is, what have we gotten out of this? Because, believe it or not, we have there are things, good things that actually people don't want to admit that, but there are good things that have come from this.

01:03:38.659 --> 01:04:01.980
And it's beautiful to look at that. It's hard to say those words sometimes even now, but I know, I know, but I hesitate, yeah, yeah, yeah. Allison, any last words, just reiterating that you're not alone, because right now, I know it feels very lonely on this journey, but you're not. There's many people here and many people across the veil that are there for you?

01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:06.059
Yeah, absolutely. Well again.

01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:16.619
Thank you so much for being here. And you guys enjoy the rest of your evenings. And thank you Brian for all you can do, your book, your podcast, you helped me. Oh yes, Brian, thank you for all of it. It's so good.

01:04:16.619 --> 01:04:24.980
I do listen all the time. You have these so many amazing speakers and guests. So thank you so much. Brian, awesome. All right, talk to you guys later.

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You