Sept. 20, 2023
What The Near Death Experience Tells Us About The Love Of God
Imagine engaging in a spellbinding exchange about near-death experiences and their profound resemblance across cultures and religions. Pastor John Burke, renowned for his years of research and insight into this riveting topic, shares his perception of these experiences, emphasizing the sense of divine love individuals often encounter - a love he believes mirrors God's "first love."
In this episode, we journey through compelling evidence supporting near-death experiences, discussing unique phenomena like the ability of blind people to see and veridical observations. We dare to question the possibility of these experiences being merely biological, given that people from all walks of life report the same universal encounters with God. Pastor Burke offers his enlightening viewpoint on God's image as seen by many - a brilliant light, brighter than the sun, but gentle to the gaze.
The peak of our conversation arrives as we share captivating personal accounts of near-death experiences, including those of a neurologist and psychiatrist, and a Hindu manufacturing engineer. The description of their encounters with an overwhelming energy of love and infinite knowledge is nothing short of awe-inspiring.
We conclude our discussion with insights from his latest book, 'Imagine The God Of Heaven,' where we contemplate God's omnipresence, the healing power of emotional wounds, and God's omnipresent grace and mercy.
Tune in to this mesmerizing conversation and let us unravel the multidimensional aspects of God's love and mercy together.
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I've been studying Near Death Experiences for many years now. I am 100% convinced they are real. In this short, free ebook, I not only explain why I believe NDEs are real, I share some of the universal secrets brought back by people who have had them.
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Chapters
00:56 - Near Death Experiences and God's Love
12:11 - Near-Death Experiences and Meeting God
17:55 - Revealing the Qualities of God
26:27 - Experiencing God's Love and Mercy
40:18 - God's Love and Presence for All
50:29 - God's Love and Near-Death Experiences
58:50 - Discussion on 'Imagine the God' Book
Transcript
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Hey everybody, this is Brian.
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I'm back with another episode of Grief to Growth and today I want to welcome to a special guest.
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His name is Pastor John Burke.
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If you've been with us, if you've been with me for some time, you might remember my conversation with him from a couple of years ago.
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If you haven't, if you don't remember it, or if you're new, go back to August of 2021.
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And I had a great conversation with Pastor Burke then.
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He's the author of the New York Times Best Seller, imagine Heaven, and I want you to, like I said, go back and look at that episode if you haven't heard before.
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But he's also written works including no Perfect People Allowed Soul Revolution and Unshockable Love, and they've reached hearts all around the world.
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Pastor Burke, together with White Catholic, is a spirit behind the Gateway Church in Austin, texas, which is a spiritual haven for countless numbers of souls.
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He's an international speaker and his message of spiritual enlightenment has spanned 30 different countries.
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Today I'm going to talk to Pastor Burke about his newest work, which is called Imagine the God of Heaven, and the subtitle is God's Revelation and the Love You've Always Wanted.
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And the subtitle actually leads me into my first question, because I thought that was really caught my eye when I heard that, or my ear when I heard that.
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So, pastor Burke, can you expand on the love that we've always wanted and why we feel that way?
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Well, first, brian, call me John, I'm more comfortable with that.
00:01:28.204 --> 00:01:30.603
Ok, fine, yeah.
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Yeah, our church is very casual.
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We say come as you are, and so I don't like the titles, but that's all right.
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Hey, cool I understand.
00:01:39.960 --> 00:01:45.743
So you forgot one thing in the subtitle Near Death Experiences God's Revelation and the Love You've Always Wanted.
00:01:45.765 --> 00:01:46.447
Yes, yes.
00:01:47.603 --> 00:02:17.649
So no, it's all right, it's just an important part because, as you know, it's my story really, from grief to growth and my father passing away when three decades ago, someone gave him the very first book, very first study on near death experiences and I read it and I was an agnostic and that set me on a journey, because I was an engineer like you, so very analytical, skeptical.
00:02:17.649 --> 00:02:34.586
But to me this was like maybe there's actual, some evidence that this is real, and so I've studied thousands of them now over the last 30 years and this new book, imagine the God of Heaven is taking a look at.
00:02:34.586 --> 00:02:48.248
I've got 70 people in this book from all around the world who not only have a near death experience, and you've covered those before, so your audience is probably fairly familiar with them.
00:02:49.050 --> 00:02:52.704
Yeah, I'd say they are, but we might as well we could go over a little bit for people that might be new.
00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:55.187
Yeah, because I mean that's really important.
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It is what convinced me and what convinced many skeptical cardiologists, oncologists, other doctors is when people die, when they clinically die, their heart stops beating, brain waves cease and yet they're resuscitated.
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Many come back saying that they experienced something of a life to come that was more real than this life ever was.
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And there are commonalities and I've traced about 40 commonalities.
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There are probably more, but I traced 40 commonalities in the book Imagine Heaven that then I was tying to how that shows up in the scriptures.
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In Imagine the God of Heaven, what I'm doing is I'm looking at people from all over the globe who not only have that as a commonality but they have experienced this God of light and love who is more personal than they could have ever imagined, who loves them with, quite honestly, a love that hyperbole is all they can do to try to express it, and in this God's presence they never want to leave.
00:04:08.229 --> 00:04:30.048
And so in the book Imagine the God of Heaven, what I'm doing is I'm showing, through the eyes of these 70 people, how this God has been revealing himself through history, his heart, his characteristics, his great love story that he's been revealing through history, and how that's what these people are confirming.
00:04:30.048 --> 00:04:33.142
And it doesn't matter their religious background, their culture.
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Many times what they would have expected is not what they found, but what they found.
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They never wanted to leave.
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It was the love they have always wanted.
00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:46.341
Yeah.
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So why do you think that resonates with us so much, that love that we've always wanted?
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Do you feel like people are missing that here, or what's the reason for that?
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Well, yeah, I mean and that's actually part of the second part of the book is it's really about God's great love story, revealed throughout the scriptures, and that often gets missed.
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And in the Bible it starts with people in relationship with God, in very close relationship with God, but then throughout the story there's rejection, there's betrayal, there's divorce, there's reconciliation, there's sacrifice to try to win back the beloved.
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There are all these metaphors of relationship that God likens what he wants with humanity too.
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And then the whole thing ends in the book of Revelation with this great wedding, which is kind of bizarre if you think it's pretty mysterious, like what?
00:05:49.545 --> 00:05:59.721
But if you miss the meta narrative of the whole story, I think you miss a lot of why God does the things he does or doesn't.
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And the main thing is that love can't be bought, it can't be forced or coerced, it can't be manipulated, it has to be free.
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And so if God created us for a love relationship first with himself and then with each other, then what's missing on the planet is the first love, and that's exactly what God said to Moses, what Jesus reiterated that love God first, first and greatest commandment second is love your neighbor as much as you do yourself.
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Do those two and you fulfill all the scriptures, all the commands of scripture wrapped up in those two.
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And so, yeah, I think part of the story of humanity and human life is that we're here learning about free will and love and choosing to choose God and then choosing to let the love of God flow through us to others as well, and that's one of the commonalities of near-death experiences, of course, all around the world, in the presence of this God of light, who is love, who knows them so intimately, they often get a life review and in that life review they re-experience.
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So that's another commonality that we have.
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Re-experience so that's another commonality is time.
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I kind of think time probably works in two dimensions, or maybe three.
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It's not our linear, one-dimensional timeline and so they can re-experience their lives in the presence of this God and he's showing them.
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They come back with two things One, god is love and secondly, what he cares most about is how we treat one another, and that's what he was showing them again and again, like the ripple effect, like Dr Mary Neal, who I was just recently with.
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Have you had her on your show before?
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I have not had her on my show, but I have met her.
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Yeah, sweet, wonderful person.
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She's a spine surgeon, very analytical person as well, but in Jesus' presence he gives her a life review and he shows her the ripple effect of every little kind action and how God used even the things that she thought were bad in her life.
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He showed her how 20 people, 25, 30 people away that was still having a ripple effect.
00:08:45.107 --> 00:08:48.996
So we talk about the word God, we use the word God.
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It's a loaded word for a lot of people, yeah, I know.
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And this community in the afterlife community, a lot of times some people shy away from it.
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I've heard some people who've had nearer depth experiences say and I don't know if I want to use that word.
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So what is your experience with the word God and how should we relate to that?
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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I think there's been a lot of damage done with misinformation about God and, honestly, what I'm trying to do and imagine the God of Heaven is show one, just like if you really understand who this God is, that all these people are encountering, you would want to seek Him.
00:09:40.647 --> 00:09:42.452
That's it.
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But the other thing I'm trying to show is he didn't just show up in the age of near depth experiences.
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So I'm tracing what actually convinced me as a skeptical engineer even before the evidence of near depth experiences, which I think scientifically, a scientific principle is that what is consistently observed is real.
00:10:09.750 --> 00:10:24.929
So if you have millions of people around the globe and I personally studied thousands of them my friend Dr Jeffrey Long has got a database of 5,000 now that he's studied I mean, there have been many studies.
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There have been 900 scholarly peer review articles published on this, like in the Journal of the American Medical Association and the Lancet and Psychiatry.
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So there's all this evidence.
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And then if you look at the fact that close to 50% of them experience who they know is God and most of them don't shy away from calling them that they're like I knew, there was no doubt in my mind.
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This was my creator, this is who made me, and yet that's consistent all around the globe.
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The being they're describing is consistent, and so that should tell us something Like that's a lot of data.
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And if it were that alone?
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In chapter two of Imagine the God of Heaven, there have been a lot of alternate explanations of near-death experiences.
00:11:23.413 --> 00:11:35.153
Right, maybe it's hypoxia, like the brain suffering from oxygen deprivation, or maybe it's the same thing, like DMT, or ayahuasca produces the same things.
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I've heard all these.
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Or what about the effects of drugs in the hospital and all that.
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So I go through 10 points of evidence that any alternative theory has to make sense of.
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Because what I find is, of all these alternative theories, they're taking one thing and saying, well, see, like DMT, well, yeah, there's the experience of these wild colors and connectedness to everything, and sometimes maybe you're traveling or a tunnel or something like that.
00:12:12.576 --> 00:12:19.136
Well, yeah, but that doesn't make sense of veretical observations.
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So when people have near-death experiences and they're out of their bodies, they say many times they're still in the room up above in a spiritual body watching their resuscitation.
00:12:30.235 --> 00:12:48.034
And there have been studies done where they've come back and 92% of the many observations that these many patients that were studied made, 92% were completely accurate of the things they said were happening in the room while they had no brainwaves Right?
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96% more, there were some things some of the observations they made were not completely accurate.
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Only 2% were inaccurate.
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Well, that's high correlation, right?
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Like, how do you make sense of that?
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Second, blind people see when they have a near-death experience and they come back and they're still blind and yet they said the same things, they had the same experience and even talked about things that they shouldn't have known.
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Like, they saw things in their life review, for instance, that when they came back they were able to describe, but they couldn't have seen that, you know.
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Third, you have these overlapping commonalities, but they're not all the same.
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So, like I said, there are like 40 commonalities, right, and if it were just a brain-based thing, then everyone would probably have all the same commonalities, but they don't.
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There are percentages of overlap which, if you're in a court of law and you have 10 eyewitnesses who all say exactly the same thing, that's collusion, that's sketchy, because, like they talked, right, you have 10 people who say mostly the same things and they overlap, but they're all a bit unique from different perspectives.
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That's very strong testimony.
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That's what we see with these NDE's.
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And then you know.
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The other one is how do you explain people from all different religions seeing the same God and that shouldn't happen, because they weren't necessarily experiencing that?
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And there are other reasons I go into, but those are just some that convince me like no, this is something real.
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We're getting these observations that again, you know, what's consistently observed is real, but there's something real here.
00:14:55.504 --> 00:15:01.510
And I'm really glad that you went through that because I find so many people do not understand what you just talked about.
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There is evidence, there's vertical evidence, from a lot of these NDE's.
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People from all across the world are having similar experiences, because the explanations that materialists come up with, like oxygen deprivation or dump of DMT of the brain, they don't explain all of that.
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So I'm glad you go into that in the book for people that are still skeptical about the whole experience itself.
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When it comes to people meeting God, what would you say is a general way that people describe God?
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Well, some, you know, some, see him as a brilliant light, bright, they consistently say, brighter than the sun, but easy to look at.
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And they say things like I knew this should just burn my eyes out, but it didn't.
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In fact, I was mesmerized and in his presence.
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So this I love the way this one, he, you know, that's the other thing about this Brian is like the people that I've interviewed.
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They're, they're like psychiatrists, you know, doctors, commercial airline pilots, nurses, I mean, these, these are, these are people who have a lot to lose by saying crazy stuff.
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Right, and yet they are.
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And like this, this one guy who his name is Ron, dr Ron Smotherman.
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He's a neurologist, anda psychiatrist, and it's a wild story.
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He he was living in San Francisco led a, led a guy stay in his house while he was gone.
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He was doing lectures around the world.
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When he came back the guy had a psychotic break and started stabbing him, stabbed him 13 times, once through the neck.
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That Dr said he absolutely should not have survived.
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He shows, showed me the, the scars and on the, as as the 14th was coming for his heart, he said I'm froze.
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And suddenly appears like instantly before him this, this brilliant light standing there that he knew again was divine.
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He knew this was God, didn't have any.
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They don't have any doubt of who this is.
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They have an honest experience.
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But he said imagine standing five feet away from the, the, the point of impact of an atomic explosion.
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He said that was the energy roiling.
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This light was just roiling with energy, and he.
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And then he said but, but the energy?
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What was roiling even more was love.
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And then he lost it, telling me this, he said.
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He said I'm, I'm sorry, I was just like, and that's.
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The other thing is that this memory for them is not up here in the brain, it's, it's somewhere in their soul and they relive it as if it were today and it just overwhelms their emotions because the love is so great.
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And so he said instantly, he was imprinted with, with these qualities and and that's what part of what I'm trying to show and imagine the God of heaven is the qualities, the heart of God.
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So he said infinite love, but also, instantly, infinite knowledge, he said.
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I, it's like I had a picture of a library but the books filled the universe and he wrote them all.
00:18:50.664 --> 00:18:55.195
And he said power, that was indisputable.
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You know what's fascinating about the power is I had another, a commercial airline pilot, who is flying into, like an airborne coming into the city of God okay, which, ironically, we'll have to come back to.
00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:22.821
I have an Indian man who had never read the Bible, taken by this God of light and he describes this same city of God.
00:19:22.821 --> 00:19:25.487
We can come back to that.
00:19:25.487 --> 00:19:46.124
But but both of these guys, this commercial airline pilot and this neurologist psychologist, said when I saw that light, it was like the very instant a nuclear explosion goes off, the whiteness of that and the brilliance of that, and yet you could look right into it.
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So power, he said, that's indisputable authority.
00:19:50.958 --> 00:19:52.923
There's another thing he said.
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He said, like you know, you didn't have any questions, he knew and he knew the right thing and you wanted to do whatever he said.
00:20:03.652 --> 00:20:10.214
Humor was another one, and this is one I bring out in the whole last section of Imagine the God of Heaven.
00:20:10.214 --> 00:20:12.923
There are things about God, I think.
00:20:12.923 --> 00:20:31.109
I think all of us, me included, we put God in a box and and, and some of us put him in a box where we we don't realize how great, how magnificent, how, how otherworldly and mysterious and in control and sovereign, all those words you want to use.
00:20:31.109 --> 00:21:00.768
But others put him in a box and we don't imagine how personable, how relatable, how even humorous and fun and funny, and some people, like they, can't go there, and that's what I'm trying to help people do stretch your box and see that God is the, that relationship, and so humor was one of the things he said, and many of them said that they had so much fun.
00:21:02.330 --> 00:21:14.961
Joy was another thing, and and and this is an interesting one because he said the joy was like you wish you could be that happy, and this is God, that he's that joyful, he said.
00:21:14.961 --> 00:21:19.413
But just experiencing that joy, he said, put me in ecstasy.
00:21:19.413 --> 00:21:35.451
Now here's a wild thing, brian and I, you know, I went there, but I had multiple people that I interviewed of these 70 people, and imagine the God of heaven Say things like that, like in his presence.
00:21:35.451 --> 00:21:41.786
I was like beyond anything I've ever experienced on earth.
00:21:41.786 --> 00:21:55.903
And I, and I said, you mean even like better than sex, like oh yeah, oh yeah, you name it, there's no high, there's no, there's no nothing, which you know some people like no way.
00:21:55.903 --> 00:22:04.874
But stretch your categories, you know, look at the, look at the evidence, because what I'm also showing is I'm showing that this is not new.
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This is what God's been revealing about himself all along.
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Joy is what he wants, because it's, it's his, it's his main state.
00:22:14.531 --> 00:22:17.281
Right, that's?
00:22:17.281 --> 00:22:21.653
Cs Lewis is one of my favorite authors, you know, who was a literary scholar.
00:22:21.653 --> 00:22:25.424
So joy is the serious business of heaven.
00:22:25.424 --> 00:22:27.308
Yeah, and it's true.
00:22:28.090 --> 00:22:40.506
Another thing that Ron, this guy, said is purity, and I asked him to explain it, and I think it's when, when, when religious people use the word holy, I think.
00:22:40.506 --> 00:22:41.647
I think it's the same thing.
00:22:41.647 --> 00:22:54.920
He said he was just so pure, so innocent, and he said but knowledgeable, so not, not innocent, like naive, but just pure.
00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:55.741
And he said what?
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What it did is?
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It stood in stark relief to me and and and.
00:23:02.138 --> 00:23:03.260
Then he said one other thing.
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He said, and humble, and when he said this, he said you know, you know, I'm a, I'm a neurologist, psychiatrist, I've written books, I've traveled the world.
00:23:13.876 --> 00:23:19.929
You know, I, I have been proud.
00:23:19.929 --> 00:23:23.414
He has real reasons to be proud.
00:23:23.414 --> 00:23:29.003
And yet he was so humble, and and again it brought him to tears Just remembering that.
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And we don't.
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It's hard for us to put all that into one being right, right, and yet that's what I think is important to do to more accurately, because we'll never fully imagine God.
00:23:46.309 --> 00:23:47.794
Yeah, Thank you for that.
00:23:47.794 --> 00:23:51.651
Excuse me, I think, as you were saying, that you know people.
00:23:51.651 --> 00:24:10.563
I think the reason why we have trouble with the word God is because, as you mentioned, we put God in a box and a lot of us were raised with a God who was less than all of that and probably the last thing we envisioned God is, or maybe people who misrepresented.
00:24:10.563 --> 00:24:12.509
Oh, absolutely, what God's actually like.
00:24:12.829 --> 00:24:13.290
Absolutely.
00:24:13.290 --> 00:24:13.913
That's what I mean.
00:24:13.913 --> 00:24:17.351
That's what I mean People representing God in a certain way.
00:24:17.351 --> 00:24:27.494
I, even to this day, I go back and forth with people who are representing the Bible, for example, a certain way, and so, as the Bible says this and it's like does it really, you know?
00:24:28.565 --> 00:24:30.492
Well, and again, think about it this way.
00:24:30.492 --> 00:24:40.739
So the Bible says a lot of things, and it honestly depends on the framework through which I'm reading the whole thing, right?
00:24:41.145 --> 00:24:42.130
Yeah, exactly right.
00:24:42.744 --> 00:25:02.973
So if the framework through which I'm reading the whole thing is what is right and what is wrong, and I'm doing right and you're doing wrong, and that's the framework, that's what matters most, it's going to be a hammer, yes, but that's actually not the framework Jesus told us to use.
00:25:02.973 --> 00:25:04.508
We already talked about it.
00:25:04.508 --> 00:25:08.231
If you love God, throw your heart.
00:25:08.231 --> 00:25:14.090
And if you love people and yourself, you know, if you don't love yourself, you're not going to love people.
00:25:14.090 --> 00:25:18.011
So it's a both and it's learning to recognize.
00:25:18.031 --> 00:25:42.636
You know, this is another cool thing of many of these stories is, they say, in God's presence and I have three people in the book saying the same thing, and one was an agnostic who literally I tease him, you beat the thief next to Jesus for last minute, crying out to God because he had never prayed, never thought about God.
00:25:42.696 --> 00:25:48.807
But literally, as he's dying of an opioid overdose, before his head hits the steering wheel, he says God, forgive me.
00:25:48.807 --> 00:25:54.794
And he and these others.
00:25:54.794 --> 00:26:08.214
And the reason I point that out is because this is not what they would have expected, because God was good, like he didn't require him to have done all the right things.
00:26:08.214 --> 00:26:16.614
All he required is their heart turning to him, because that's the point love and he can't force love.
00:26:16.614 --> 00:26:21.878
So so the thing Jesus said is love God, love people.
00:26:21.878 --> 00:26:27.997
That's the framework through which we've got to also read the Bible and understand what all that means.
00:26:27.997 --> 00:26:33.336
So doesn't mean the command to not lie is wrong.
00:26:33.336 --> 00:26:48.375
It means it's not loving, right, right, but if someone does lie, would you just beat them down and tell them how horrible they are and they're worthless people because they did that and treat them like that?
00:26:48.375 --> 00:26:50.309
Well, that's not loving.
00:26:51.424 --> 00:26:54.954
So anyway, yeah, that's a really good point.
00:26:54.954 --> 00:26:57.471
You mentioned the agnostic man.
00:26:57.471 --> 00:27:00.693
You also mentioned an Indian man who saw the city of God.
00:27:00.693 --> 00:27:03.630
So that comes back to do.
00:27:03.630 --> 00:27:06.656
We have to be Christian to experience God in heaven.
00:27:09.289 --> 00:27:11.315
Yeah, you're asking the Christian pastor.
00:27:11.315 --> 00:27:14.029
You're leaving me into the trap.
00:27:15.907 --> 00:27:17.192
I don't mean to lead you into a trap.
00:27:17.625 --> 00:27:20.987
No, I'm totally, I'm teasing, I'm teasing, but but.
00:27:20.987 --> 00:27:22.411
But there is something I think.
00:27:22.411 --> 00:27:43.950
So I think some of us have been burned by Christians who have not understood the, the magnitude of the grace of God and and, as a result, have have led people to believe that that God doesn't care about anybody but us.
00:27:43.950 --> 00:27:57.236
That's not true and I'm showing that in the very first three chapters it's called God of all nations, but the the other side of it is what these people experience.
00:27:57.236 --> 00:28:03.978
So, for instance, santosh Akarchi was this Indian manufacturing engineer.
00:28:03.978 --> 00:28:07.732
So again, very smart people who travel the world doing engineering.
00:28:07.732 --> 00:28:09.356
But he was raised in Hinduism.
00:28:09.356 --> 00:28:11.550
His dad was a Sanskrit scholar.
00:28:11.550 --> 00:28:12.554
That was all he knew.
00:28:12.554 --> 00:28:13.949
The Hindu gods was all he knew.
00:28:15.204 --> 00:28:19.251
He dies, he hears Code Blue, his pancreas ruptured.
00:28:19.251 --> 00:28:21.949
He hears Code Blue.
00:28:21.949 --> 00:28:26.433
They couldn't revive his heart and they put him on artificial life support for three days.
00:28:26.433 --> 00:28:31.275
Three days later, when he comes back, he tells what happened.
00:28:31.275 --> 00:28:32.930
He left his body.
00:28:32.930 --> 00:28:34.590
He sees his body there.
00:28:35.184 --> 00:28:41.086
This brilliant light comes and he knows it's a divine light, he says.
00:28:41.086 --> 00:28:47.826
And I knew this light had ultimate authority and I had to do whatever it wanted, he said.
00:28:47.826 --> 00:28:50.374
But I fell in love with this light.
00:28:50.374 --> 00:28:52.528
That was his first response.
00:28:52.528 --> 00:29:00.632
And then they go, they travel, and he said it was like through tunnels, and that's another one of the commonalities.
00:29:00.632 --> 00:29:10.910
But they come to this place where the light stops, parked over what he describes as this giant compound.
00:29:10.910 --> 00:29:18.798
Now, I've been to India many times and at first I was like, what do you mean compound?
00:29:18.798 --> 00:29:20.750
It took me a while to figure out what he was saying.
00:29:20.865 --> 00:29:41.954
But in India there are compounds, literally like high walled areas, gated, and he said it was like that, but these beautiful walls, high walls inside this beautiful landscape, but mansions and buildings of otherworldly material.
00:29:41.954 --> 00:29:47.135
And it was square in shape, thousands of miles long.
00:29:47.135 --> 00:29:50.944
He said when you're there, your eyesight is like telescopic.
00:29:50.944 --> 00:29:53.792
Well, that's another commonality as well.
00:29:53.792 --> 00:30:02.772
But he said and there were 12 gates, I counted them and outside the gates were angels.
00:30:03.025 --> 00:30:05.772
And that's when I realized I'm looking at the kingdom of heaven.
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And he said all I wanted was to enter there.
00:30:09.134 --> 00:30:12.953
He said I realized that's the goal of existence to be there.
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So he experiences.
00:30:16.421 --> 00:30:23.550
And if you've ever read Revelation 21 and you look at his words, it's like that's what he's experiencing.
00:30:23.550 --> 00:30:30.855
And then he's like where am I?
00:30:30.855 --> 00:30:39.451
And again, this is an experience more real than he said, more real than anything we've experienced here and he says where am I?
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