Embracing Pain as a Pathway to Healing: Joshua Cameron's Revolutionary Perspective on Chronic Pain and Holistic Recovery

Hey everybody, this is Brian, back with another episode of Grief to Growth and the day. I've got with me Joshua Cameron. And Joshua is a Utah native, born and raised. He joined the army at the age of 19, for eight days after September 11th he deployed to his first war zone in the Balkans. While he was there, he was recognized for valor and service by the joint chief of staff, the highest ranking officer in the US. Later he deployed to Kuwait and Iraq and even has a comical stand up comedy bit about how terrible the conditions were for soldiers there. He spent the last 10 plus years in the medical field, from combat medic to pediatric, medical research and data analytics, where he worked on the largest longitudinal study of his kind while he was at the University of Utah. He now helps people who suffer from chronic pain in their minds and their bodies and helps them find a pain-free life by guiding them from to a place of perfect health. So with that, I want to welcome to Grief to Growth Joshua Cameron.

Oh wow, hey, thank you so much. I really appreciate you holding the space here.

Yeah, it's good to. It's good to meet you. You've got an interesting background, and, and how did you get into helping other people with their pain, though?

Well, there's a long journey, right? We often, well, really, we can only see the world from, you know, a place of who we are. And so if we are stuck in grief, well then, alls we're going to see is grief, and there's really no room to help others. And you know, I've had, you know, in order for me to hide, you know, as a child, as a survival mechanism, to hide from the grief of growing up in an abusive household. I really, you know, buried myself in a lot of fantasy novels, and in those fantasy novels are people who are, you know, given a, you know, monumental task that, you know, they probably didn't want to do it and it was very difficult for them, it was very scary for them, and yet they stepped up and did it anyway, and so I really resonated with that, which then, you know, brought me to this idea of oh well, you know, I'd really like to help out, I'd really like to add value.

Now, the problem is is that if we don't know how to help ourselves, well, we're going to be clumsy at best at helping others as well. And so I really had to learn how to help myself and took a lot of chaos, you know, whether it be you know from, you know going from. You know child abuse, and you know both mental and physical to then you know PTSD, just, you know different things that you, you know, can't unsee. You know in a war zone, and just how that reach havoc on relationships. And as that falls apart, you know, I realized that all the walls that I erected, you know, in order to protect me, well, what they did was, you know, I erected these walls, they hey hide me from this pain.

Well, the problem is the wall doesn't discriminate. So if there's anything that's good to come in my way, it's going to block that as well. And that's usually why people go through the dark night of the soul and everything changes. Because during the dark night of the soul, which is where, you know, typically people feel like their life is kind of falling apart. Well, all the walls collapsed. And when all the walls collapse, well then the heart is open and it can actually, you know, receive the signal and then from there, you know, just found a. You know the idea of when the student is ready, the master appears. That certainly happened in my life and had a chain of them, you know, some I found on YouTube, some I actually paid for you know quite handsomely for you know mentorship and guidance and yeah, been a very fascinating road since then.

Yeah, so you're also in the medical field. So how does that, how does what you do helping people with chronic pain relate to like just the traditional medical training?

Well, so the traditional medical training you have the Hippocratic Oath, right, do no harm. Problem is is we've abandoned that, right, because we've abandoned that for a very, very long time. I mean, unfortunately, the medical system. I was very blind to it. Medical systems, no, no different than any other organization, right, it's very, you know, susceptible to just doing the bidding of. You know their largest donors and you know, back when my mom was, my mom was young, well, what those donors said is, hey, you know, we're going to have to do that. You know, pregnant women, you should smoke because it's healthy. And then later on they said, hey, you know a person who wants to eat well and be healthy. You should cut out all that fat and replace it with sugar. And then they said, oh, hey, you and chronic pain, why don't you go ahead and take these opioids because they're completely safe and non-addictive? And you know, hey, you know, why don't you go ahead and take this experimental, you know whatever? Yeah, and it's, it's. And so that really woke me up to oh, okay, so we're not really here to help. I mean, the ER is like acute pain. Acute pain is amazing, right, the RQ pain system, you know. Acute care system, you know, you break your arm, you have a heart attack, you have a stroke. We're incredible, incredible. But when it comes to chronic conditions, it's just oh, well, here's a pill. Oh, you've got, you know, downstream effects. You've got side effects? Well, we've got another pill for that. So we call that a win and and so trying to, you know, help others and you know, work in pediatrics, right, the uh long school study as a part of was called ECHO, you know, environmental influences and child health outcomes, and the point of that is to look at a whole lot of different variables. Right, there were a whole, you know, conglomerate of studies, you know, packed into into into one, and one of those was, you know, a group of ladies who were trying to get pregnant. And as they're trying to get pregnant, well, they're giving a lot of urine tests and in those urine tests they're testing for phthalates and, you know, bpa. And then here we are, you know, bringing these, their kids, in, you know, eight, 10 years later, and then we're taking pictures of their teeth and we're correlating okay, how much BPA was in their urine. And then we correlated to okay, what are their teeth breaking down? And can we create this correlation of, you know the. You know the hormone disruptors and the you know endocrine system disruptors and tie it to, or at least suggest that this is something you know that could be causal, or at least should be. You know, look into further. You know we take blood samples, we take microbiome samples, height and weight. You know, go through a whole list of you know genetic questionnaires and so it really got me to okay, well, this is amazing. You know, man, I'm helping kids for one. This is great, it was a lot of fun.

And then when the pandemic happened, the hospitals were the most backwards. They seem to be the ones that weren't following the science. They seem to be the ones that were the most just trying to make everyone afraid. And that was really strange for me. Our hospital here, you know, when. You know, at the University of Utah where I was working, you know when everyone quit wearing masks and they said, oh, by the way, you know, it looks like masks actually don't work. The hospital took like six months before they quit wearing masks, as if they wanted everyone to be afraid, like.

And then when I started doing a little bit of research like hospitals, you know I mean third, the third leading cause of death, it's like what? And okay, well then, I have got some, really, you know strong questions to ask myself. Is this something I want to be a part of, right? Is there a better way to help? And you know, by being able to ask myself better questions, what leads me to better paths? And I'm not saying that doctors are the problem. Doctors are just part of a system and you know, and so chances are, you know, you run into a doctor who probably wants to be able to help out. Now, that said, he's very confined. You know he or she are very confined by. You know what the insurance agency is going to carve out for the amount of time. You know, with the pharmaceutical, you know company is going to say what they're allowed to do, and so you know they're victims to the same system, and I didn't so want to be a part of that.

And so, just in search of something better, you know, I found Peter Sage, who taught me about consciousness, and he's he was the youngest trainer for Tony Robbins back in the day, and Tony Robbins is really good for, you know, helping people get from a place of feeling like they're victims to. Then you know, hey, I'm going to go, seize the world. I'm going to go do, I'm going to make it happen. I'm going to swim upstream and make my dreams happen. And Peter is more of a flow state and much more about, you know, kind of a Taoist Buddhist though he wouldn't necessarily say that right, he's not really religious but much more allowed to happen. You know, tune into. You know tune into higher vibrations and attract those and then take inspired action in order to make that manifest in the world.

And then you know from there, because of my affinity towards helping and my affinity towards you know, I mean healing, you know, may not have necessarily been healing in the medical field, but that's effectively the way I identified. Well, then a master healer came into my world. I thought he was bizarre at first, but since I just learned all this stuff about consciousness, how you know the brain works through neuroscience, through psychology, how even you know scientists back in the 20s, you know talk about how consciousness is primary, max Planck, consciousness is primary. You know Neil's board. You know everything that we call real is made up of things that cannot be considered as real. So, okay, so we already discovered back in the 20s that we live in a matrix right, that everything we call part of you know particle matter, reality is made up of collapsed light waves, that everything's empty space, everything's energy and okay, well, let me give this guy a try, let me listen to him at least.

Suspend my need to believe or disbelieve, because it seems very bizarre, it's challenging my model of the world. And then, from there, just having that ability to say, instead of dogmatically assigning a belief system, well, that challenges my identity, that challenges the way I believe, and instead of doing what I've done so long and sticking the logical frame of mind and just fold my arms like a toddler, be like no, I don't like those vegetables I've never tried. No, I don't like those ideas I've never tried. Right, I'd been to said, okay, well, what if I try them? How do I know?

So why do you think that western or traditional medicine is so poor handling chronic conditions, specifically chronic pain Cause I know people that have had myalgia, fibromyalgia and different diseases and they're told it's all in your head, it's not real and we just still dismiss those people.

Because the people at the top have no interests in healing those at the bottom. Because if you are, if you're sick and you can't, really it's hard for you to pay your bills, it's hard for you to take care of yourself. You feel like you're crazy. Well, guess what you're gonna do? You're gonna give your power over to somebody else. And who are you gonna give your power over to? Well, whoever's right there conveniently telling you that they know with a certainty that they can help, and whether that's a politician, whether that's a pharmaceutical system. I mean, we're one of, I think, two nations in the world that allow for the types of pharmaceutical commercials even air on public TV, and it pays for about 75% give or take of the commercial income for these channels, and so it's really nothing more than a business model that's based on profit first, no matter what, and if people get benefit, well then that's a happy consequence, and I think that really boils down to that.

You know, I hate to believe that and I've resisted that believing that for a very long time. But the older I get and the more I see it's undeniable, and it's not just me, I guess. I'm looking at these commercials on TV for these pharmaceuticals, for these bizarre conditions. It seems like very few people would have you know, wouldn't know how the ads pay out anyway, and then they give you the list of all the side effects, right, and it's like I think I'd rather have the disease. But yeah, like why are you advertising prescription drugs to people that don't have access to them? Right, I have to go to a doctor to get them. So it's a weird system.

Yeah, well, it's a way to condition us, right. Why, if you watch CNN, is there maybe an ad for Boeing? Are you gonna go out and buy a 7047, brian? Right, it's a way to condition us to be like, oh well, these are safe.

And in kind of the same way, when I was a kid, everyone would ask, hey, what do you wanna do when you grow up? I don't know how, about you guys help me? And then I was like, oh okay, I do know, I wanna be a marine biologist. That's dumb, you shouldn't do that. You should do what I think that you should do. And so it's really around conditioning. And then I ended up joining the army, because I was living with my brother at the time and he and his wife were both in the army. And what do you wanna do when you grow up? Join the army. What do you wanna do when you grow up? Join the army. What do you wanna do when you grow up? Join the army? Well, what did I do? I joined the army, right.

How did we get into? And then you take conditioning to a very dark place. What did we see with 9-11? How did we get into Iraq? Well, every single news station said 9-11 Iraq, 9-11 Iraq, 9-11 Iraq. Oh, we didn't say that Iraq was responsible for 9-11. We just mentioned Iraq and 9-11 in the same sentence for years and years, and then all of a sudden, we're at war with Iraq, and so it's conditioning for us to do things that aren't in our best interest in order to fuel that same paradigm that benefits those at the top.

And it's not necessarily, it's not necessarily for us to say good or bad in a moralizing sense, so it's easy to do so. I think it's better for us to say hey, does it benefit us or does it detract from our health, or does it detract from our quality of life? I think that if we take morality out of the question and just look at, hey, what benefits us? Well, then we'll find that we live in a much better life and we'll be able to find that we can really attract ourselves to paradigms and systems that work much better. Because, just like you said, it's so easy to resist because we want to believe. We so want to believe desperately because we see these doctors are so nice and they wanna help out, but they're part of a system that controls them, and if we decide that we don't wanna be a part of that system. Well then, we start by asking better questions rather than demanding better answers.

Yeah, yeah, good point. So I know you've dealt with some health issues yourself. Is that how you decided that you wanted to help other people, and what kind of things have you gone through?

Yeah, so when I first started to heal, well, I first had to heal myself right, and, you know, because no leader worth or sold it should be trying to lead anyone anywhere. They haven't led themselves first, and you know. So I was just letting go of so much stuff I didn't know was there. They would just come up and say, oh my God. And you know it was all through meditation and that's what was so phenomenal is that, you know, I used to have a lot of, you know, chronic, you know, ptsd, felt like I was my own worst enemy. I felt like you know that, you know, I mean, for years and years I would beat myself up at night, just you know way, laying myself for all the different mistakes I made and for all you know, for all the times that I said something that I felt was embarrassing and just robbed myself of hours of quality sleep in order to rake myself over the coals. And once I started learning how to healing, I really just started shedding that over the course of a few weeks, and you know, I was crying nearly every day, just like tears of joy, just letting all that garbage out. And that's when I realized, just so much joy letting that out. It's like, oh my God, I, you know, I can actually do this for others. And you know same, you know same man who taught me how to heal. You know, taught me how to heal others. And what's fascinating is, you know again, we, if we convince ourselves, you know, of Only this one paradigm can work for us. Well then, the body's got no ability but to listen. And what happens if that paradigm isn't effective? Well then we trap ourselves in something that doesn't work.

For instance, I was working with a lady in South Africa. She recently lost her husband and he was deteriorating in a nursing home facility and they didn't really take care of him. He had big, giant bed sores growing so she had to go over there and take care of him. Well, he's like foot and a half taller in her and about a hundred pounds heavier in her, and so just by having to roll him over and try to take care of him for so long, well, she tore her bicep tendon and tore it over and over and over, so for years had extreme pain, and she said that she couldn't even reach up. Barely even just try to reach into a cupboard. It'd bring her to her knees In South Africa, reaching out the right side window to grab, like a parking validation. She couldn't even do that because it'd bring her to her knees. She had to actually open the car door and reach out, even then extreme painful. She worked with an orthopedic surgeon didn't help. Worked with a chiropractor didn't help. Went to about seven different specialists. Only thing she said that they did is just make it worse, make it more painful.

I took her through some meditations because that tap her into truth and love, because love is what heals, right. So why do we have so much fear in our world? Because love is where true power is. Love is what heals and if we can tap into the true love with the infinite power of the soul, well, everything changes. I've got an incredible testimonial with her as I'm interviewing her and just letting her tell her own story Within four days four days she'd been dealing with this for years within four days she can now reach out her window and not feel any pain.

She can now reach up to her cupboard and actually grab something and within two to three weeks she had 70% of her range of range of motion back in that arm and because the body, the body's intelligent enough to heal itself. The problem is again coming back to Neal's Bohr, coming back to Einstein, coming back to Max Planck. Consciousness is primary. Everything is energy. If we're overlaying a negative conscious awareness, well then we've got no ability other than to run that program in our lives, and our body can't help but to listen to the voice in our head.

Yeah, well, you've mentioned you bring up Max Planck and Neal's Bohr and those guys, because I've become fascinated with them myself recently and again, going back to, I'm thinking about people I know that have had like chronic pain and the doctors was telling them it's all in their head, and I think you would probably agree yeah, everything is mental, right, it's all it's all right. But they're saying in a dismissive way, like it's not real, it's all in your head, and we're just saying, well, it is very real, but it is, it is a mental state.

Yeah, well, and that mental state can actually come from a spiritual issue, right, because the body is effectively a container for the soul, right? And this is where awareness comes from, and this is where our consciousness comes from. And this is a model for me, right? Nobody knows the truth of capital T, so I have no way to actually show you direct evidence of this. But, just the same way that GPS is not the roads that I drive on, it's a meaningful map in order for me to get to my destination.

And the soul itself is in the superset. And the soul is the source of our power. And the soul is being drained by, you know, you tune into, you know, news media and you get nothing. But you know, fear porn, fear porn, fear porn, be afraid, be afraid, be afraid. Russia, russia, russia, right, whatever. Well then, we start to, you know, create blocks. And if our soul is being drained, well then, everything downstream, right, that in the subset, well, it's going to break down as a natural consequence. But the soul is that full power, well then, everything downstream will then heal as a natural consequence.

In the same way that I was able to help her, you know, attend in drastically, in just four days, and you know, it's incredible when you actually tap into what's true because your heart can feel it. But there's times where somebody will say something, you get chills up your spine and it just hammers you, just like it's a way of basically your soul remembering hey, this is true, this is true for you. Right, the mind gets, you know, really adult. The mind gets very confused. The mind gets so convinced of its own brilliance that it traps itself. You know Jordan Peterson, if you're familiar with him, he's doing an exodus.

You know breakout, and you know a bunch of different scholars and he had this idea of the Luciferian mind. Right, because the Luciferian mind is so convinced of its brilliance it doesn't care what's right or wrong. It says, oh, I already know, I already know all the answers. I'm going to fold my arms just like that toddler and say, hey, this is what's right, this is what's right, because, you know, I'm not willing to actually step out and try it. I'm just going to, you know, go through a logical paradigm and you know, effectively see, hey, does this make logical sense? And it doesn't. Well, then I'll dismiss it. And coming back to Niels Bohr, if you're familiar with the CIA gateway protocol, right, there was a very interesting quote from Niels Bohr where his son reached out to him just you know, talking about how confusing quantum mechanics is, and Niels Bohr said well, look, you're not thinking, you're only being logical.

Hmm, yeah, say that again. I want to hear that.

Yeah, so you know Niels Bohr's son very confused very confused over the quantum mechanics reached out to his dad. Hey, you know this is super confusing, what's going on here. He said hey, son, you're not thinking, you're only being logical.

It's really, really interesting that you say that, because I was reading some quotes from Einstein the other day and a lot of them were kind of like letting go of the intellect. He was like he would use his intellect, of course, because he had a really powerful intellect, but he's like I really get my greatest insights when I move beyond that, when I kind of like go with that. And you know, everybody wants to talk about quantum mechanics and quantum theory now and nobody understands it. That I know of. But it's kind of like you have to almost intuit it. You can't really come to it logically.

Hmm, perfect. And you know, when we break down something illogical and illogical framework, well then it can be nothing more than the traditional Buddhist metaphor of a finger pointing to the moon. But if you watch the finger, you'll never see the moon.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's true and I'm starting to realize that more and more and I think again what you're talking about with helping people to heal this chronic pain, and again our tradition, we're looking at the wrong end of it. We're looking at the body and still looking at the spirit that's holding that. You know. You talk about unresolved trauma that we carry around and no one tells us in traditional medicine. That's what's causing your problem.

Right, we're looking at the chemistry and we're not looking at the frequency.

Right, right, yeah, exactly. So how do we move beyond that? How do we start to look at the frequency? How do we determine what is actually causing my problem? I've got, you know, chronic pain in my elbow. How do I get started?

Well, you know, a great way to even get started would be to. If you go to my website at freemeafrompainscom, there's a free download. You can go ahead and get a free gift. I take you through some meditations and it's an introduction, but they can still be quite powerful and some people have a hard time meditating. They feel like they don't meditate, right. So the very first one is you know, here are the benefits of meditating, here's how this works. And then let's take you through a brief meditation. And then the second one is starting to tap you into some of these. You know these magical awarenesses that can then start to open that up and you know the way that I, you know, often present.

You know why the body breaks down. You know even though I kind of already did that, but in a way that you know people can really latch onto is again, everything's energy and all energy needs to flow, and just like water, right, if water's not flowing, it stagnates. When, what's attracted to stagnating water? Well, you know mosquitoes, parasites, bacteria, viruses, fungus, right, and what do they do in our body? Will they drain our lifeblood? They poison our lifeblood? The body breaks down, right, and the mind will the same thing, and we have fine examples as Americans you know of a thought virus. All just to do is walk into a crowded room and it's sad when you see a bunch of them getting together and they're actually having a good time.

But you can say one of three names. You can say Barack Obama, hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, and say nothing else, and people immediately act like they just got possessed by an agent of the matrix and they start fighting each other. And then so then you've got these same things in the spiritual world that instead of draining or poisoning the lifeblood, they drain the life force. And so if there's an issue in your elbow, right, it could be tied to a spiritual issue. Your soul is being drained somewhere, or your soul is being blocked somewhere, and, having the ability to tune in, you could even ask your elbow through meditation.

Hey, what are you trying to tell me? Rather than you know, most people are just like oh, my damn elbow, oh my stupid elbow that hurts so much. And here's the thing you know as a kid. You know what hurt me most of all. As much as getting hit, really sucked, being screamed at, being yelled at, being demeaned and we don't really. If everything's energy, well, guess what. Your elbow has a spirit. You demean the spirit of your elbow and guess what's going to happen.

Oh, wow, yeah, I see what you're saying. So, yeah, we're cursing our body, right, we're cursing our elbow.

Literally yeah.

So you mentioned meditation and it's really interesting because I think meditation is extremely important. I'm always pushing people to meditate but, as you also mentioned, people push back against it. I can't meditate, I can't stop my thoughts, I'm not doing it right. So what do you say to people that's to say those things Like you just don't understand. I just can't meditate.

Yeah, well, first let's watch our language. Right, as soon as we say can't? Well, there's literally nowhere else to go from there. Right, I can't. Well, okay, well, what if you say, well, I haven't yet learned how to meditate?

And then you know, the reason why it's important to meditate is, again, you know, the brain is the supercomputer of the container.

The heart is what connects to the signal to the soul, and so the heart in meditation, you have an intention, and when you give out the intention, without necessarily engaging the mind, right, leaving the mind quiet, right, and it's connected loud, so say you know, to the still mind, the entire universe surrenders.

And so when we tap into the signal of the heart that is connected to the signal of the soul, well then, the soul can then reach up and start to ameliorate, right, these issues, not because we think, oh, I need to go grab a hammer and hammer this nail and that will help me build this house, but because we just, you know, if you find somebody who can guide you right, like I said, you know, and what took me so long to find out is you know and to figure out myself, was you know, it's not what you learn, right, any of us can pick up a book about meditating and you know, learn how to meditate and still get you know, very few results.

So it's not what you learn, it's who you learn it from. Right, I can learn how to play basketball on the streets with my friends and know all the ins and outs of basketball, but that's not going to teach me to be, you know, great at the NBA. Right, being an actual NBA head coach will take me, you know, leaps and bounds ahead. Because, again, it's not what you know and what you learn, it's who you learn it from.

Tell me about the miracle healing system.

Yeah, Well, I mean, it blew my mind when I first engaged with it and the fact that it was real Like, oh my God, this is real, like, because I could literally feel. I could literally feel the energy you know in my body like moving around, like what the heck? And the fact that you know again, I'm in Utah. I was working with a lady in South Africa with a torn tendon. For years went to every you know type of you know expert that you can think of in order to help and only made it worse. I took her through a meditation and, within four days, no more pain reaching out her window, no more pain reaching up to her cupboard. I mean like, so I didn't really know what to call it. So I was like, man, that's a miracle, okay, a miracle healing system. And so it was really just the you know a bit of, I guess, inadequacy of the language. Just say, I don't know what to call this other than it is a miracle.

So here it is, the miracle healing system, and I'm working with a lady right now in Denver who's got Lyme disease. Right. Lyme disease is one of those things that plagues people for decades, right, causes neurological issues, causes chronic pain, and her mind was blown. First session I took her through. She's like oh my God, I've never felt anything like that before. That was incredible. I could, I've never felt energy like that before. And so this is. You know again. There's. You can take a Udemy course and learn all the ins and outs logically. But just because you know it logically doesn't know that you know it from your heart and your soul.

Yeah, that's really interesting. So, as you were, as you were talking about that, it reminded me because I know I've taken Reiki, so people here have heard of Reiki, we've heard of other energy type healing systems. So how does what you do compare to something like that?

Hard to say. I've never been trained in Reiki. Yeah, so you know, this is one of those things that you know I didn't spend a lot of time, you know, delving into a lot of different healing modalities. The only reason why I didn't write off, you know, the great master who taught me how to heal was because, you know, ed Straiture is because Peter Sage made me feel safe, right and so because it was a webinar you know about, you know a webinar about speed reading, right, and it's like, oh my God, I am, speed reading would totally change my life.

So I show up and all of a sudden he takes his left turn and starts talking about all this. You know spiritual stuff, like what is going on, right, and I saw a little smirk on you know my mentor's face, just like he's heard it all before. So there's something real here, right, because you know, mentor, I already trusted him. I already knew that he was at a place that I wanted to be, you know, and then he can help, you know, provide me the steps to get there, and you know what I have. You know what I have heard, right, but you know, I haven't actually experienced it so I can't really say. But what I've heard from Reiki is a lot of times Reiki can organize the energy of the body a lot, organize the energy of the mind, and you feel good for maybe a little bit, and I don't know how long the lasting effects are, whereas, you know, when you heal the soul, not only can they be immediate and lasting, but then you can keep it on, you know, forever.

Now, that said, you know if you are, you know, engaging in activities that you know, say, drive you into a ditch, and then that causes, say, your elbow to you know, to have chronic pain if I burnt, coming with a wrecker and pull you out of that ditch, and then you're healed. Well, if you exhibit those same behaviors, well, guess what? You're probably going to find yourself back in that ditch. So it's also an understanding, you know, also understanding that we need to change some of our behaviors. Or, if we are going to still engage in some, because maybe it's, you know, necessary, because the you know the work that we do, you know around people who are negative and they are trying to put all their negative energy on us.

Well then, just learning how to protect your energy and learn how to clean your energy and do that daily, you know, and create daily practices. Right, clean your energy, that's more important. Cleaning your teeth and I bet you know we brush our teeth, you know, every day, and our energy is what makes up all of us, you know. And so you know just finding ways that you know that work with us, finding ways that allow us to start opening our minds, and really the best thing that we can do for ourselves is the second that we get triggered be like we want to say that guy's full of it, say I don't know what that guy's trying to say. Let me suspend my need to decide what it means and let me do a little bit of investigating. Let me be skeptical. Sure, yeah, be skeptical. Nothing wrong with that. But validate and verify.

So is it necessary for people to begin to heal, to identify a particular trauma Like this is what's caused this or is it more of it? Sounded like I heard you say, like almost a daily practice, or is it both? How does that work?

Great question. In fact, I would say that if you diagnose yourself and say this is why I have trauma, it might actually make it harder for you to heal.

Right, because then you're tied to your story, and a lot of times when we're tied to our story, we'll get a lot of secondary gains, right? Why do people bemoan all their issues? Is it because they're totally in love with crying out and being a victim? Or is it because they actually think that people are going to come to them and say I'm so sorry that you're dealing with that and they're actually getting the love that they wanted and that's their way of actually connecting? And so a lot of people have a stranglehold on that, and that's why you may see a friend or a family member who is struggling and suffering and you've got some brilliant ideas to be able to help them out and you might share some things.

It's just like hitting a wall slides off because you're also not considering their secondary gains, and so the more time that we spend in researching our diagnosis or holding on to our story, the harder it can be to let go. And so if we understand that we have pain and don't really know why, it's actually a lot easier to heal, because then you've got no blocks, you've got no mental blocks, you've got no story around that. You've got to unravel and let go of Interesting.

And it's really interesting because I've heard of people doing past life regressions and things of that nature and saying, well, once I identified what caused this, then I was able to get over it. But I hear what you're saying. It's kind of more like we can start to really identify, like, ok, this is happening because my father was mean to me 50 years ago and I'm still holding on to that story and still carrying it around with me.

Yeah, yeah. And so the past life regressions right, but those can be incredibly powerful, and it's not for me to say how things are going to work universally for everyone, right? So when he goes through a regression, it works for them, right, and it ends up healing them, helps them get over it. Well, great, awesome, lean into what works, right, yeah.

And I know you weren't saying that we shouldn't do that, but I like the idea which you're saying is I guess it's not really necessary for me to understand exactly what's causing my elbow to hurt or exactly what's causing me to have this chronic pain, whatever it happens to be fibromyalgia, whatever. Yeah, it's like we can just start with clearing and healing. Yeah, exactly so is it? You mentioned that what you do with the Miracle Healing System is more of a long term thing, so I'm going to learn practices, I assume, from you when I work with you.

So I don't really need to work with people for a long amount of time. But what I do is I record the sessions so that way they've got them for life and so that way they can lean on them when they need to. And when I first learned how to heal, how to heal others, heal myself I listen to them daily, and now I might listen to them maybe every other week or monthly, because once you learn how to ride a bike, you don't really need training wheels anymore and I might go revisit them in order to really tap in and really dig into some of the foundational aspects, in order to make sure that I've still got the basics down so I can advance with my own stuff. Sure, yeah, I think with, yeah, with Annalie in South Africa. Yeah, I think it was only three weeks.

You know I, you know arthritis. You know, worked with a Navy SEAL who had arthritis and you know, within that first session his arthritis was gone. Yeah, still took him through other sessions. And you know, worked with another military analyst who had to sit in small rooms with terrorists, see on their phone all the gross pictures of like child trafficking, and you know, and yeah, within a couple of sessions. He just talked about how free he was from his PTSD, how free and, just in, how amazing it was for him, and how, you know, now he's got these, these skills and these tools to be able to do this forever.

Just like he can't be more grateful and he's like, oh my God, right, because again it's there's. There's something almost like you know. You mentioned how you know we're cursing, you know cursing our body, and it creates almost like a Faraday cage around us. If you're familiar with the Faraday cage, well, it blocks any sort of electronic transmission. So anytime we're trying to send that signal to the source of our power or soul, well, that darkness that we've now attracted around us is just, you know, suppressing it.

Now you've mentioned a couple of different things you've worked with people on. So you mentioned arthritis, you mentioned the one with the toward tendon. What other types of things have you helped people with?

There was a beautiful, you know, young lady who suffered from a lot of mental anguish, and when she did, she'd get this psychosomatic response where she get these bumps that would appear on her skin and she'd scratch him and she couldn't help but scratch and itch, and itch and get these gnarly scabs all over. And so what I did is I, you know, I healed that. You know, whether you call it mental disorder or just mental anguish so within two weeks right, she was only two weeks she was in New Zealand. Even so, you know, I've worked with, you know, been blessed to work with people across five different continents, and so, you know, once that went away, well, then all the symptoms went away and then she was able to actually get in a relationship. Right, she didn't. You know, she had no interest in boys because she was very afraid.

Living in New Zealand, we're super hot, wearing all the long sleeve shirts everywhere she goes and you know, I worked with a lady who suffered from an impacted spine and pain from that and the pain from the spine, and so then it ended up, you know, twisting her hips a little bit, which then went and pulled on her leg and her leg then pulled on her knees. So she had a whole lot of problems. And what was complicated with that is she was also, well, you know, an energy healer. But most energy healers don't know how to properly protect their energy. So what happens is, you know, you go and clean, you know, this darkness off of somebody. Well, that's like taking the lunch away from a lion and that's what you do to you, yeah, yeah. And so if we don't have to properly protect ourselves, well then you know, we'll find that we'll start breaking down and then we'll start, you know, absorbing their darkness. And in fact, there was a great, you know, story about Gabor Maté. Are you familiar with Gabor Maté?

I know the name.

Yeah, so he, you know, as an MD, he started, you know, finding a big awakening in ayahuasca retreats and he took a whole, you know whole gaggle of people to South Africa or South America rather, and you know meeting these shamans and so you know, everyone's going to go to the circle and they stop him and they go, yeah, you can't join the circle, you've got way too much darkness on you. And they explain it to him. It's just that as he's helping people heal, he doesn't know how to protect himself, so he's just like a sponge and just absorbing it all.

Wow, yeah, I've actually heard of people that are energy healers, that, do you know, suffer themselves because they're not able to protect themselves, or clear, or I guess are both.

Yeah, yeah and that's. And again, you can learn how to heal and you can maybe even learn how to protect yourself. And if you find the right people, you can learn how to do both. And because it's not what we learn, it's who we learn it from and when we tap into the true power of the soul. Right, that, you know the. I mean the guy who taught me as an inventor, invented the microchip that goes, that went into every like NATO rocket, and you know that was before he became a healer. And so this guy you know as an engineer, you know he's got an engineer mind and he's the one telling me to get the hell out of my mind and to get and tap into my heart. And this guy's probably more brilliant than I am. He's telling me that quiet the mind. And so I was like, okay, okay, I get it now.

Yeah, well, you know, again it goes back to that paradigm that we have, that it's all about the intellect, it's all about the ego, it's all about the brain, it's all about the physical and you're coming at it from a completely different point of view was, as you said, you know, we've known for what we used to know intuitively as mankind for a very long time. We forgot, we kind of started coming back around to it about 100 years ago I guess, and then, like the 1920s, all those, all those brilliant guys are like okay, we, it's, it's not about just the brain, it's not about just the physical part of it, and so, but then you're going back, also going back to what you said about the pharmaceutical industry and health industry. It's not really designed to heal us.

Right, exactly, or or to cure, even right there, it's there to prolong, you know, and you know, and even if you look at you know, cancer treatments right, the you know where did we come up with chemotherapy? And we saw, you know, in war, what mustard gas did to people that shrunk their organs, you know. Okay, let's go ahead and put mustard gas in people's, in people's veins, unless there's hope that it kills a disease before it kills them.

Yeah, so what are the things? I asked you some questions that you know in the pre interviewed, some questions that you have to be good, and one of the questions you had was what does it mean that thoughts weaken the mind? So what do you mean? You say that.

I mean, we kind of been talking and dancing around that idea a lot. But you know, this is Lao Tzu right, thoughts weaken the mind, right, that's actually in the Dow to Ching Right. Because when we get so convinced of our own brilliance, well then we'll tune out what's actually true, what's actually real Right. Because again, we'll, we'll, we'll be like okay, does that make logical sense? And what did Niels Borges say? Well, you know, are you even thinking or are you just being logical?

Yeah, yeah. Well that's, I think that's a hard concept. I know it's a hard concept for me and I'm just starting to really understand. You know, trying to get out of the head so much and and to feel more into things and to trust the heart and to tap into that higher part of ourselves. So it sounds like, from what I hear you saying, like the meditation that we're doing is kind of quieting that part of us down so we can hear from our spirit.

Yeah Well, and then you know, as I guide people, I can actually tune in, I can tell when your mind's active and that really help guide you to quiet your mind. So that way, you know, and so that's one of the benefits of working with me personally versus working with like a recorded meditation is that is, that I can actually help guide you okay and your mind's active, allow that to go to zero, right in order, so you don't block yourself and then give you, you know, give you tools for your mind to focus on in order to allow it to just quiet down and and just allow your heart to expand and open up.

So that's the thing about work with you personally. So you're, you're able to pick up on the fact that someone's mind is still active and then help them to to do that, because I know a lot of people you know they do they struggle with meditation because they're like I can't have to stop my thoughts right. And then this oh, I'm having a thought, and they beat themselves up over having a thought, and you're like, well, I might as well get up and leave because this isn't working anyway.

That's such a brilliant point. And the thing is is it's not about stopping thoughts, because if you use thoughts to stop thoughts, well then you're just thinking Right. And so you know, if you bring energy to something, you energize it. You bring neutrality to something, you neutralize it. And there's a brilliant man by the name of Jose Silva. You ever heard of him? The Silva method? I've heard of him, so you know.

The Silva method is this idea of you know creating like a window in your mind and see, you know, the accomplished event outside of that. And so you know, I use that frame for some people who have a hard time. You know, quieting their mind is as you close your eyes. We'll just picture a window and all the thoughts that come through. Just imagine their birds or imagine that they're animals that just float right by the window. You know, thank you for, for you know, making my view look better, but I have no interest in following you.

It's not about not having thoughts, it's about not following your thoughts. And because the more that you can allow your mind to observe your thoughts without following your thoughts, the stronger it becomes, because the mind is meant to be an antenna right like a rudder. The heart is the source of the source of power, right, the heart. You know, and we measured this that the, you know, the heart's magnetic field extends 3000 times further than than the electrical impulses of the brain. And then we can look at that. And since we live in a fractal universe, we can look at that in a planet. Right, look at Jupiter. Jupiter is nothing but this. You know, chaos of electrical storms. But, you know, does that lightning escape the atmosphere? Not that I've seen, but that magnetosphere, right, that comes from the core, that comes from its heart. It extends beyond the asteroid belt, it extends beyond Mars and it reaches Earth's orbit.

Wow, wow.

Yeah and so and so, without the other planets in there, you know their magnetic, you know the magnetosphere protecting us from you know the sun's, you know radiation, right, so it's not just our ozone layer that protects us, it's also the other planets as well, and that's, you know. That's what the idea of the law of attraction is, that you're sending the heart signal out to attract it to you.

Okay, so let's talk about the law of attraction, because that's something that's, I think, kind of intriguing to people. And they say and you get people from both sides, of course, some people say, well, I've been trying to practice the law of attraction. It's not working for me, you know, I'm still poor, I'm still not well. So how do we? How do we start to tap into that?

Yeah, I mean such a great question. And the thing is is, if we're trying to become abundant and wealthy and we decide that the only way to be wealthy is to have money, well, aren't we just saying that we're poor and we're just doubling down on the fact that we're poor? But if we are then showing gratitude for everything in our lives, for, you know, is abundance maybe somebody coming up and giving you a free gift, right? Is abundance maybe coming up, and somebody you know having an enlightening conversation, and you walk away just feeling like, feeling better, feeling lighter, feeling stronger, right? And then the more you give gratitude, well, then the more you know. It's just like a little kid, right? Are you going to give a little kid a giant responsibility or you give them a small responsibility and build them up for a big responsibility? And you know the. You know it seems right.

Again, nobody knows the truth to the capital T, but it seems and you know, relying on people like Joe Dispenza, they really talk about how the you know quantum, you know quantum realm is run on a rule set and that rule set is, you know, if you can see yourself, as Neville Goddard even talks about, see, you know, see yourself, as you know, the wish already fulfilled. But not just see it, feel it right, cause feeling is the secret. And so imagine, you know, that you know your goal is to get a house right, your dream house, and that dream house, you know what would it feel like to be in that house the day after you signed all the paperwork right? Maybe your family's there, maybe you can smell the smells right, and the more, the more variables you can put in there and the more that you're going to attract it to you. And this is the way that the law of attraction has been, has been brought to me and you know and been, you know, told to me. And to kind of share a bit of an anecdote, you know, I, you know we don't always get to see around the bend in the river, so things can, can show up as abundance and we don't necessarily understand that it's abundant yet.

And you know I joined a coaching program with a man by the name of Pete Vargas and it was a stage to scale and you know. So I'm going through this and you know I'm doing my manifestation. You know stuff you know daily, and at the end of this coaching program, right, and bunch of people there. But he said hey, we're going to do something we've never done before. We're going to give you guys a 5k gift. Okay, well, that wasn't 5k in my wallet, but it was 5k gift. And he said oh, you know what? You, you just have to make it to Miami or Denver. Okay, well, you know what? There's a, there's, you know, a friend of mine who I'd really like to connect with in Denver, and then only that. But I was just interviewed by somebody you know on their podcasts and they said hey, let me know if you're ever in Denver, hmm, okay. So I reached out to him and say hey, guess what? I'm going to be in Denver. He said, oh, great man, I'll go ahead and put you in my guest bedroom. Oh well, look at that Another gift.

And then, when I was at the workshop there in Denver, you know, as I was about to leave the first day, he texted me and said hey, I'm at my friend's house, he's come over.

Okay, well, that's good timing. And then he said hey, I'm going to go over there. Well, she's suffering from Lyme disease. Not only that, but she's got a whole, you know, a whole slew of people in her you know field who can need my, need, my help. And so, as I'm talking to her, you know we are in a lot of alignment and I started working with her and now she's already reached out to her friends and her friends are already showing interest in working with me. And so abundance may not just be that a you know suitcase full of cash is going to fall into your life, right. So it's a matter of training your particular activating system to be grateful for you know, if you're, if you are, you know, trying to manifest abundance and something good happens for you think it show gratitude, so something else can. So you're reinforcing that, so something else can come in, you know, bigger and better and greater, and start building momentum.

I love that. Thank you for that story. I think that's really important and it's it's an understanding I just recently came to. I just was I forgot what it was I was reading very recently in the last couple of weeks, and they were talking about different forms of abundance, because we tend to think of abundance as money, right, as as as stuff like that, but it's that you can have the abundance of great communications, as you, as you brought up, or you know, someone might give you a gift.

You know it could come in that form and we all most of us, we all pretty much have abundance in very in various ways in our lives. We tend to focus on what we don't have. So even those people that have a lot of wealth, then they tend to focus on other things that that they don't have. There they might be extremely lonely and that gratitude practice that you talked about, which I think is really important understanding. Okay, yeah, I do have a lot going on for me and this might come to me in a different form as and it's kind of actually, it was more fun when it comes to uniform, like it did for you that whole roundabout thing. It just it's makes it more interesting.

Well, not only that, but it's also the way that that life works. Right, there's no such thing as a straight line, except in the mind of a human Right, we say the shortest distance between it, you know, to any two points is a straight line. Well, try driving to the grocery store in a straight line and see how long it works. Yeah Right, and just like a river it winds. The thing is, is we may, we may be, you know, trying to manifest abundance, and then, you know, scarcity pops up.

Well then, what do we do? Do we react to our outer world or do we realize that it's our inner world? Consciousness, right, would Max Planck say, consciousness is primary. So then, if we close our eyes and say, okay, I don't see beyond this bend in the river, so that must mean that that in a non-linear dynamic, something better, there's a shortcut here. I just don't that, I just don't see. So something great is happening for me. And if we already know that we're on the right river of life, and we know it's in tickets to our destination, but it bends in a way in which is counterintuitive, do we really freak out if we already know that we're on the right river?

Yeah, that's a really good point too, because you know again, the older, the older I get, the more I can see that the things that I thought were detours or obstacles actually led to, led me to a better place. But at the time I couldn't see it, and that's that's that, that's the trust, that's the faith that we're on the right river right. So when you're on a river and the river is flowing, you don't really have to do anything. The river is going to take you to where you, where you need to be. So we don't have to, we don't have to fight, we can just kind of enjoy the ride, yeah 100%.

So, joshua, how do people, if they want to reach you, they want to work with you, how do people work with you?

Yeah, well, again that same website, freemeafrompainscom right, it's a landing page with a few testimonials so you can see what other people are saying, and there's a great way to download that free gift and that's a great way to just go ahead and get started. You get started with this. If you already know for a fact, hey, I need to reach out to this guy. Well then you'll see a button there to set up a healing plan and then we can go from there.

Yeah, that sounds great. So it's freemeafrompainscom. Yep. People can reach you there. Joshua, thanks so much for being here today. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. I think it's going to I know it's going to help a lot of people to really open up to possibilities. You know how, because you know we can become so frustrated with certain things in our lives and we go to these so-called experts that are helping. So this is an alternative or actually supplement to whatever people are doing.

Well, and the thing is is I was so hardheaded for so long, I was so convinced of my brilliance, right, I was right there in the depths of you know what Jordan Peterson would say, that Luciferian intellect that only made my life worse, and you know, and so there's nothing special about me. I just simply had the right mentors, that's it, just like. You know, if you look at people who are succeed in business, well, it's probably because they also had the right mentors. And so, again, it's all about you know who you learn it from. And so nothing special about me. If you want to, you know, learn how to heal. Well then reach out. Let's get you on that path.

Sounds great. Thanks for being here.

Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you for holding the space. Really appreciate it. It's been a great conversation.

Thanks for having me See you tomorrow afternoon. Bye.