How To Discover Boundless Possibilities With Lissa Friedman

Brian Smith  0:00  
Close your eyes and imagine

Everybody, Brian back today with another episode of grief to growth and today I'm thrilled to introduce you Alyssa Freedman. Lisa holds a PhD in art therapy and MA and N EDS and mental health counseling for our lives. She has been deeply interested in the intersection of art, spirituality, spirituality and psychotherapy. And she blends us are all interconnected. Alyssa has been an artist since childhood, and she had experience with spiritual experiences at a young age. In fact, our first big reports was the age of six. I'll let her tell us about that. But later on, she had encounters with light beings with visit her before bedtime. And her spiritual journey took off at the age of 19 when she'd been practicing and practicing Transcendental Meditation, otherwise known as TM, which eventually led to her very spiritual awakenings. Now, a particular significant experience occurred a few years ago when she received a message urging her to share her spiritual energy with others. This letter to organize meditation groups where she and the participants experienced energy flows together, the gatherings evolved in the sharing wisdom energy from a state that she calls boundlessness. Alyssa believes that while sharing this shift in consciousness helps everyone move closer to the one to the infinite or to what she calls the boundless ultimately leading to a ripple effect that expansion of human consciousness. So you guides people through energetic transmissions, assisting them and taking the next steps on their spiritual journeys. She has over 40 years of experience as a psychotherapist, she has trained and been certified in several modalities, including transpersonal hypnotherapy, and Ericksonian hypnotherapy. She is also the founder of the Enneagram School of awakening. And she refers to approaches transpersonal psychotherapy, and she helps people work through personal limitations while guiding them back to their true nature, which she says transcends the personal. She's authored two books boundless which details a journey to the boundless and from the heart of balance, which discusses obstacles and issues that may hinder our connection to the boundless. So with that, I want to welcome to greater growth, Mr. Friedman. Hi. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I'm really excited to talk to you today. And I have to start off telling you a little story I was I was just talking with someone just right before I was talking to you. It's 10 o'clock on Monday morning. My first point was at nine o'clock today now was just met this person for the first time I said, What do you do? And she said, I'm a transpersonal, psychotherapist. And I was like, okay, so then I get off the call with her and I start to prepare for our conversation. Diane, I looked up your bio again, just to refresh myself, I'm like, I must have pulled up the wrong bio, because I'm talking to two transpersonal psychotherapist in a row. So I see that as a synchronicity, I thought that was really interesting. I do too. I did, too. And I'll say just a couple of words about transpersonal psychotherapy, because people like what is that? Yes, please. So I called myself that before it became popular to actually get a degree as a transpersonal. psychotherapist, you can do that now. Right. I was sitting with myself thinking, what is it that I do?

Lissa Friedman  3:47  
I help people work through their personal issues, and then go beyond that to beyond the personal.

So a spiritual connection. So it's both. So I you know, it's not like I avoid or ignore personal issues, but, you know, to resolve them so that we can transcend that.

Brian Smith  4:08  
Yeah, I think it's fascinating. And I think you're the third person I've talked to as a transpersonal psychotherapist at this point, but it's, it's not very well known. It's interesting. You were doing that before became something you didn't get a degree. Yeah,

Lissa Friedman  4:21  
right. Right. Right. Oh,

Brian Smith  4:23  
tell me about your you know, you said you had experience, I guess when you were six. And you tell me about that experience?

Lissa Friedman  4:28  
Yeah. So um, I let me also say that I like to talk about some of these experiences, because I believe that most of us have had something like that. And we just go, oh, well, I guess I don't know what that was, which I did, too. It took me probably 50 years to sit back and go, what happened there? And maybe it was important. So I think we all do that. Anyway, so I'm walking to school. And

the school was just like, around the corner and, and down the band and my parents can watch me through the upstairs window. So it was really little, but, and I grew up in the Bronx, which was kind of safe back then. It became not so safe. But you know, okay, so I'm walking to school, and I looked down at my little feet, which I was wearing Buster brown shoes. And I looked at my feet, and I'm gonna think I'm here.

I'm here. Wow. And I look around, like, it's like, I woke up and knew now what can I possibly mean? I am here. Something more than this little person walking to school, is walking to school, there's like, the presence of beingness was in sight inside me. And I recognized it. And then didn't think about it for many years. But I had that was my first awakening, quote, awakening kind of experience. Yeah.

Brian Smith  6:12  
And then you had another experiment? Well, I guess when you were like about 19? I think it was when you took up TM. Is that correct? Yeah, so but, you know, I have to say I probably the next

Lissa Friedman  6:25  
kind of awakening events that happen, probably were the light beings that we'll come visit the TM thing. And just to talk a little bit about TM, was my first way into really searching and meditating and exploring in a way that I knew that that's what I was doing. But that I didn't stay with TM for very long if I probably was with TM for two or three years, and then had other teachers and so forth. But the light beings, which I call them that because because I could feel their energetic presence. And they had some quality of light about them. So I, so of course, I call them light beings. But it started when I was nine and went on till I was about 16. And why it stopped, I really don't know why it's fired. I don't know, either, except that I, I have a little theory around it. It was the first when I was nine, we moved into a bigger apartment, and I had my own room. And I think there was something about having my own room, nobody else sleeping in there. You know, it was quiet, it was solitary, that it gave this up or allowed this opportunity and so so I wouldn't be going to sleep at night, it was before I went to sleep, I was just sort of lying around, I usually would start off on my back and I'm lying around looking around. And I can feel the energy in the room shift a little bit. And as soon as it did that, I would, oh, they're coming. And then I would feel the weight of four of them sitting on my bed. I didn't exactly see them, but I could sense the light of them. I could feel the energy of them clearly sitting on my bed. And I would become very alert. And then they would ask me ridiculous questions like, What's your address? And can you spell it for us? And what's your name? And I mean, they asked me, you know, every night so I knew they knew the address, and they knew my name, but I would spell it for them. And I would feel their energy and their presence and I liked it. I wasn't scared. And I you know, and then when then they would lift off the bed, and they would leave and then I would roll over and go to sleep. Wow. Okay. And it was clear. It was like, Okay, now I can roll over and go to sleep. And then in the morning, I wouldn't think anything of it again. They never told anybody. And the next time I so after after 16 I stopped having that connection, forgot about it. Didn't think about it and wonder, why aren't I having that? So you know, then. So that ended at 16. And probably in my 20s 30s when I would meet someone that I thought knew things, a psychic or a spiritual teacher. I would say this happened to me, what do you think it was? And they would give me an answer that I would think I don't think so. And I would go on. I can't even tell you what the answers were. But it was like, No, that doesn't sound right. So but then I was Learning how to do past life regression, I study with the Michael Newton School Institute, and I'm learning how to do past life regression, which means is people are doing past life regression on me. And there's a process where you, you go into trance, and then you go back through your life looking for memories Exactly. But here's just going back and you go to a time in your mother's womb, it's just a way of kind of, of accessing memory. And so I go to a time in my mother's womb, when I have the conscious thought, well, I don't know what that is. But, right, because the conscious mind can do those things. But the one of the first things that happens is I feel the energy of the group. And I call them my group, which is why when I read Francis keys, books, she calls them the team is like, I have a group that's like, Oh, my God, I have a group, she has a team. So so the group energy is there, and I just started weeping. It was probably the most important part of the, of the regression, I did remember something. I saw people that I had no memory of, but that didn't mean anything to me. What what was big was that the group was there. And I was reconnected with it. So that was really exciting to me.

Brian Smith  11:31  
Wow. So I'm curious. You said during the time from your nine to 60s, like seven years, as beings are coming in periodically to your room, I guess that every night they ever deliver any messages, or did they just

Lissa Friedman  11:46  
know? But so, later on, I understand. Okay. I'll go, I'll go fast forward. And then we go back. Sure. Yeah. Okay, so. So, okay, they come in during the past life regression, and I'm so excited, but I keep forgetting about them. You know, I keep like, I think, well, I'll write in my journal, and I'll ask questions. And then I would forget about the journal for months at a time, right? And then I'm walking down the street one day. And these words come in, like clear, if you've ever had that, where words come in, you know, they're not yours, and they're coming from somewhere. And the words are, it's time. And like, it gets my attention. I'm like, okay, but and then I realize, for what, it's time for what, I don't know what it's time for. So, but I take that in, and I think, okay, it's it's time, it probably has something to do with consciousness and, and awakening and something like that, but I don't know what, you know, I, I meditate, I give attention to the, what could it be? So that's when I do decide I'm going to I'm going to ask the group. Because maybe, maybe this is about that. Yeah. Right. You know, like, so I say, what's this about? And this entered there, that energy that I recognize as their energy comes flooding through me, and I'm like, Oh, my God. Okay. Okay, it's time for this to come in. All right, this is fabulous. So and I'm like, in this altered state, and I take walks in this altered state, and I sit in this altered state, and I'm grateful and I cry in our journal, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. And then I hear very clearly, this is not just for you, like, oh, well, that makes sense. But it didn't occur to me and, you know, it's like, okay, well, I'll gather some people together and we'll meditate together. So I do I tell a few people, and we just a few, we just we sit and we meditate. And the the frequency comes in big. And, and I don't say anything about it, but I you know, I can tell the people are altered and I, so then I go home and I general and they say do you have to tell them about us? Like, I really want to, you know, I'm a you know, I'm a kind of, sort of not really conventional, but it's like I present as a present as a conventional psychotherapist. But I It's my secret that I'm not conventional. You know, so I'm like, oh, god, okay. So, the next the next time I meet with these few people, I say, did you notice the energy changing in the room? And they say, Yeah, I say, Okay, that's good. And I go back and I say, See, I mentioned the energy She said, No, no, no. Us. So then I have to go back and say, Okay, there's a group of light beings that are sending a frequency of energy through me to you. And they've asked that I tell you that and they go far out. I used to have something like that, you know, so it was like it, normalized it. And then from then on, I was able to say, Okay, I feel the energy shifting. And maybe you will, maybe you won't, it's okay, whatever. And I'm just supposed to share this with you. So for the first three years of this, there was no words I go home, and I journal and say, so is there a teaching?

No, no teaching, just sharing the Energy says share the frequency. That's what's important to shift the frequency of, of humans, because the earth plane frequency is usually has to do with fear and anger. And this is lighter, and it's love and peace and connectedness. So shift that, okay, I can, I can do that. Because I'm not doing anything. I'm just opening up and this is happening. So this is good. And then the pandemic happened.

And the group went away, you know, no, it there's no group. I'm seeing clients only on Zoom. And I moved somewhere that was actually at a retreat center right before the, the pandemic, not realizing that I was about to go on a long retreat myself because of the pandemic, right. And so I wrote boundless and, and I wrote boundless and obviously, there were words coming through who I have to plug this in, it's might die. Just plug this in, just take a second to plug it in.

Okay, I'm a little bit in a different place, but I think it's okay. Right. Okay. So so, so now that now there are words, coming from boundless and the words are. In that book, I described very clearly how to move from a separate, contracted suffering place to an expanded boundless energy, how you move from one to another. And so now there now there will be work. Now there are words. And when I could meet with people, again, there was a lot to say, and a lot to share. So, and what that led to is. Yeah, so there was a case, in other words, and whether that led to was how am I going to share that these words. And the first meeting I had, where I was going to really actually let it flow through, I knew that it couldn't come from me. It had to come from that energy. And it had to come clearly from that energy. So I just automatically lit left, my eyes closed. And I said, Okay. I'm available, and what would you like to share? And the words were flow through? And there was no things to say? And then I would say, Okay, it's we're open for questions and comments. And I guided people to only share from this moment, not like history or memories, but right now, and that's something that would help with their spiritual journey. And they would ask questions, and I would see the questions as energy. And I would see the answers as energy. And I would just wait for them to become words. And I would say the words. Okay. And that's what's happening now. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. You know, that's up to date. We about 50 years, but

Brian Smith  19:28  
you know, it's interesting. I'm so fascinated by the light beings when you were a child, do you think they were just sharing energy with you? Maybe? Yeah.

Lissa Friedman  19:39  
I think they were doing I think they were sharing and altering my nervous system. Because I could feel their energy and it was just a matter of, like, what can we do to keep her just still enough to receive this? Well ask us silly questions. And you know, and answer them. And, you know, when they were done with me, they would just lift off and float away.

Brian Smith  20:05  
So that feeling you had when you were six when you were you felt like you were in there? Did you feel lonely? Did you feel disoriented? How did you feel?

Lissa Friedman  20:15  
Excited? Really excited was like, Oh, I'm here. I'm here, you know? Yeah, it was, it was like, it was like, I had been walking around a little bit in a daydream. You know, like a foggy not really noticing things and moving through life. I mean, it was only a few years, but I think most of most people might spend an entire lifetime doing that. But, you know, I'm, you know, and laughs Okay. It wasn't bad. It's okay. I'm just kind of in a daze. And then it was like, oh, like, all my senses were alive and awake. And now I'm actually seeing everything through these eyes, which somehow is connected to something bigger. It was great.

Brian Smith  21:12  
Yeah, yeah, that feeling of knowing that you're not your body, I think as it could be. Most of us do suffer most of our lives. We identify. This is me, you know, it's like, this is me. And you, you wouldn't be on that.

Lissa Friedman  21:28  
That's right. That was the first inkling that that was the truth. Yeah, that's a profound thing. But it did take me quite a number of years to understand that, that came to me at such a young age. But you're right, we're not our bodies, and we're not our minds, and we're not our emotions. We're something more what we are more than that.

Brian Smith  21:50  
Yeah. So the message that they're getting to us now, what would you say is the core message

Lissa Friedman  22:01  
that we are boundless itself? We're not the thoughts. Were, we're not the emotions, we're not the body, we're not even a sensation. But there is something that is aware of all of that, that awareness is what we are. So we tend to think that when we are aware of our thinking, or some experience, that we own, that awareness, it's mine. It's my separate word, and you have your separate awareness. And everybody has their separate awareness. And it's actually a little bit true and that we are a portal and it is very specific coming into us. But it is from the bigger oneness, awareness, boundless oneness. I use those all those words interchangeably. So it's like, the other day, I was sitting with a bunch of people, and I heard the birds singing. And it was so clear to me that the birds were singing in me. Right? And so like, Well, what do I mean by that? Are they thinking inside my head? No. The singing inside, something that I call my awareness, I'm conscious of the bird singing. But it was so clear that okay, there's singing in me. And the me is awareness itself is the boundless and there was such an example of, that's what I am. And that's what we all are. And we, you know, yeah, so that's really odd.

Brian Smith  24:06  
It's really interesting content. And it's because I'm when I heard your story, and we've talked about six, I was about six, when I felt very lonely. I felt very disoriented, and I felt like I missed that connection. to So why are we so separate was the feeling that I had?

Lissa Friedman  24:26  
Yes. Well, that's a big deal, too. Yeah. Realize that at six, you know, it's kind of like realizing what's not true. Like really feeling it. And you know, like, like I said, a lot of six year olds and just kind of La dee da.

Brian Smith  24:46  
Yeah, like it's it for me. It was like, why I felt like there was something missing that that could that as I get to the point that I am now, you know, hearing about you're talking and listening to Seth materials right now, and that's Yeah, mind blowing, and reading, you know, we both love Frankie key Frances key the team blocks. Yeah. Okay, this is the truth that we've forgotten.

Lissa Friedman  25:11  
Yes, this is a truth that we've forgotten. And so you mentioned the team books and what they talk about two, which is, you know, when I was reading them, I was very aware of my group and the kind of teachings coming from there. And I knew that while there were lightnings, they were also part of the one

not separately from that, and it's not like, you know, there's this there's the oneness, and then there's the group. No, it's like that they were getting their their truth, from the boundless itself from the source. And in the team books, they talk about that, too. You know, they'll, they'll give you their teaching, and then they'll say, Yes, and you know, we're connecting, we're all one. That's all that's going on here.

So, you know, that helped me really resonate with that, as well.

Brian Smith  26:07  
Right? Well, it's interesting, because I'm getting these different teachings from different places, and they're all saying the same thing. And it's the I read some of the things that I asked you to send me some questions before, you know, like some things we could talk about. And you talked about, like giving up our identity. Oh, yeah, very scary. First of all, people would say, well, first of all, what does that mean? Because I had my identity, how do I give it up? So help me to unpack that. So I'm excited to not I have a great new resource. It's called gems, four steps to move from grief to joy. And what it is, it's four things that I've found that I do on a daily basis, to help me to navigate my grief. And I'm offering it to you free of charge. It's a free download, just go to my website, www dot grief to growth.com/gems G, Ms. And grab it there for free. I hope you enjoy it.

Lissa Friedman  27:01  
Yeah, that's that it's funny, because that's what just occurred to me that we should talk about when you brought it right before you wrote it up. So we're, we're on the same page. So one of the most important things that I had to learn was giving up identity and that I had, so I did TM, I did some other group kind of meditation things. And then I found a teacher that I had for about 10 years. And what I got from her, mostly, I got a lot from her. But what what really stuck was the identity thing really never occurred to me, like she would say things like, you think that you're the kind of person that bla bla bla bla bla, and I'm like, one I didn't even know I thought that but yes, that's probably true. And I am that kind of person. So what's the problem? Yeah, that's okay, that's true. And it was like, No, you're not. That's not what you are. So. So it made me kind of dig in there who like, what, and so many layers and levels of it, you know, it's like, okay, I'm the kind of person that may feel shame and sadness a lot. Okay, now, there are stories that go with it, what are the stories? Now they bet part of my identity that I went through this and that, and feel these emotions? Because I went through all that. Now, is that true or not? Yes, it's true, but isn't, isn't who I am? Or is it just things that I went through? And okay, so there's that kind of psychological level, then if I'm the kind of I'm the kind of person my identities maybe my age, or my gender or am, which is, of course, a big issue these days. And I think it's great to try to figure out your gender I do. I think it's a step along the way and individuation but at some point, we don't have a gender you know, so, so, it could be all those things. It could be that I identify with the kind of mind I have, with the kind of body I have with the kind of emotions I have. And I had peeled away many, many layers of this. And then, about 11 or 12 years ago, my marriage fell apart. And I had lived in a big home on a lake it was beautiful, beautiful land and country and had a big community and had you know, I taught our And meditation, well, low grade, and you know, a lot of friends and, and I and I kind of knew that if this marriage ends, I think I'm blowing apart my life. But I don't know, I don't know how that's going to be. But I wound up having to live leave my home and I wanted to move into California briefly. But leaving everything that I had and going to California and also knowing that, my God, this is really going to challenge my identity, my identity as a, as a therapist, having a practice having community, you know, people that knew me, you know, I grew up I was living in a what I call small town, Gainesville, Florida. You know, people that live in that live in the rural areas, think of it as the big city, but New York is not a big city. So, you know, so, you know, the identity that I had there, and I knew, Okay, this is going to be probably bring up some stuff for me and I got to California, that whole identity was gone. psychotherapist connected and community group of friends, prep, private practice, teaching art doing art fell in or whatever was gone, I was devastated in a way that I thought I would never have to be fair. I was, and I was terrified. And that's an emotion that I didn't do much of. I did a lot of shame and sadness, and some anger, but terror, not so much. So I was terrified. And, and I could feel like, okay, now I really have to know, myself without any of that, without any of it. And then and then realizing that also, in order to really live the truth, that I am this boundless one, I can't even hold on to beliefs, I can't believe in it. It can't be a belief, it has to be something that I know so thoroughly, in my body and beyond my body. That, you know, that is not like, oh, I believe that that's true. It has to be known. So yeah, letting go of all of our identity, because anything that sets us apart, sets us apart.

Brian Smith  32:39  
That's, that's a really a concept I think that people have to play around with. And really, and sometimes we can experience those things like you said, we go through the loss of a job, or a divorce, or, in my case, the death of a child or of our spouse or something. Because we start to believe that we are the things that are around us. And when those things are suddenly ripped away. Yes. to a different level where, you know, I can imagine you as yours telling us, You You land there, you're like, but I'm still me. Right?

Lissa Friedman  33:18  
Right. This? I don't know, you know, and I'll just share this with you. And we don't have to go into it at all. But I lost a child as well. So I know that. Yeah.

Brian Smith  33:33  
Yeah. Well, that, that I've heard a lot of people say, Am I still a mother, you know, especially if it's an only child. And it's like, yes, that's, that's a part of who you are. But that's that that's not who we are.

Lissa Friedman  33:45  
That's not who we are. Right? And so there's some things that happen to us that contribute, do contribute to what we're bringing here, but it's not who we are. And, and if it's really a powerful thing, it's very hard to let it go. It was very hard for me to let go of that as my identity.

Brian Smith  34:09  
It's terrifying. Yes, it's terrifying because we think that that's, that's all that we have. And I know the people. When we first tried to introduce these concepts of people, they're like, fits. You know, it does, it seems nonsensical. But as as again, as I as I've come along, and I read about Frankie's books, the team books and you're what you're talking about, and I'm listening to Secretary right now, I listen to books more than they read because I walk when I do it. Yeah. It's like mind blowing, because we are not. And we believe in right reincarnation, which we've been different lives. We are, it's actually it's all happening at the same time. So we are things yes,

Lissa Friedman  34:50  
that's right. There is always because there's no time and there's no space. You know, there is it's really one one thing You know that, however we look at it all happening now? And yeah, it can be terrifying. But it's when you once you've crossed the road, and you look back, you realize, oh, god, there's nothing to be afraid of, if you're letting go of something small, for something infinite, right? These little things, this happened to me. And this is how I know myself. And this is what I do when people know me this way. I'm letting go of those little things, for the eternal for the infinite itself.

Brian Smith  35:43  
Well, you know, we, again, we talked about your experience, and I was thinking about my own, I was interviewing a guy, and we were talking about the reasons we come to earth, right? So people, because people say, Well, why would I? Why would I choose this? Why am I here? Am I here to learn? Am I here to have experiences? Am I here to grow? If I'm already perfect, you know, blah, blah. And he said, something I had never heard anybody say before, it's a part of the reason we come here is to feel that feeling of abandonment, to feel that feeling of being small to have that experience of being alone and being powerless. But then it's ironically, we ended up clinging to it. This

Lissa Friedman  36:20  
problem, right? This? Yes, we whatever that is, so and then might be, you know, I don't want to anyway, I'll say what I'm gonna say. That might be his reason He came to Oh, it was for me to realize this. For some of us. It's something else loss. Grief.

Brian Smith  36:44  
I don't think there's any one answer, but that, because we talked about again, so growth is an experience is a is a to learn, you know, and that was one I hadn't thought about. But I realized that's something that's pretty much universal at some point. I think we feel that like I really was resonated.

Lissa Friedman  37:03  
It's true. It is it is universal. Yeah. I agree with that. And yeah, is it that I can, we will have to go through that. And I think we're here to know that we're the boundless and help everybody else.

Brian Smith  37:21  
Yeah. And we grow from that we that's how we grow the empathy and develop things that we do. And again, once we start to peel away these layers, and I was listening to Seth this morning, he was talking about I was the spice merchant in Denmark, and I was this and I'm with that, and I've been men, I've been women. I've been rich I've been. And then that really allows us to drop the boundaries that we have more here. I look at you, I'm like, I I've been like you at some point, you know, we've been we're a lot more similar than we are different. But

Lissa Friedman  37:53  
it's so true. Right? Yeah. But you know, and, and there's the fourth is the first phase of probably everybody's life, where they're trying to figure out how they are different. There's a section in the second book that I wrote on gender. And when I was going to write about it, I, I google Wikipedia, like how, you know, like, how many genders are there now? And it was something like 102 different gender 47. Like, wow, okay, well, if we're gonna go that far, then it's just all the little nuances that happened within boundless, right. I mean, I think it feels like, once you stopped doing the binary thing, then it just proliferates into infinity. So it's maybe the way of getting there. But it's when we're younger, we want to know how I am unique. And I think it's an important part of our growth, to have that, oh, I'm unique because I think like this or you know, so we're looking for that and it has to be there has it has to be really suddenly nuanced, because most of what we are, which we share with many, many, many, many, many, many other people. So to find uniqueness is kind of difficult. But we're looking for that until we begin to realize, well, maybe it's more important to see how we are similar. And this similarity goes beyond. Because here's where people get stuck to, you know, they're like, oh, okay, you, you interview people. I do something like that. So we're the same, right? You know, are you reading set I read sets were the same. Oh, yeah. And I did that. So we're the same. You know, and I've heard it's comforting to someone to do that. I've worked with people who will say Oh, yeah, you know, I did art when I was younger. So we're the same. It's like, No, we're actually the same because we're boundless. We are consciousness itself, we are the divine that that's, we share that with every everything in the universe. And so that's a little different than having qualities or attributes or history. It's not on the individual level, it's way beyond that.

Brian Smith  40:32  
Right? Well, what I'm gathering from what you're saying, I think that we can relate it to the, to the team books is that we are not individuals. And they say that, you know, Frankie says that over and over again, pink books, you're not you're not an individual, you're we're, we are Team I just didn't I was like, where's like, nested the way our reality is. So I'm within a team. And that team is within another team and that team, I think they show it to the level leagues. And you know, and then Seth talks about the different personalities, like, there's seven, there's two, and Seth is actually part of step two. So he talks about all of his personalities, but he's lived. So we are multifaceted, multi dimensional beings living multiple lives at the same time. And it's, it's it's hard to wrap your head around.

Lissa Friedman  41:21  
Right? It is. It is hard, we can't wrap our head around it. I think that's what we that's part of the letting go. Because the little human mind, it's too limited.

Brian Smith  41:35  
Yes, yes, you're exactly right, you get to a point where you just have to say, Okay, I can't understand this, from whether I am let's enjoy the experience that we're having. But also, again, we're not as different as we think that we are. We don't you know, and I, you talked earlier about identifying with certain things. And I was just thinking about this this morning, you know, as I'm, as I'm getting older, and just had a part. My wife and I, my wife said to Kentucky, so what a Kentucky Derby party, like, my parents, like that parties. I thought, yeah, one day I look back at these pictures I used to we used to be a lot younger. Now we're older. And you know, I identified as being that 35 year old guy, but now I'm the 61 year old 62 year old guy, which 1am I right, you know, because it's there. They're ostensibly different people. They look different. They think different. But I identify them all as being me.

Lissa Friedman  42:28  
Yeah, right. And then there's there's there Amis way beyond that, too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we might, you know, some people start identifying as their age. Oh, I think probably a lot of people do, right.

Brian Smith  42:47  
I think I think it was a mistake that a lot. Most of us make, at some point, my like, my, my poor daughter, she would say things like, Oh, Dad, you're so old, or whatever. I'm like, and I remember sitting at the kitchen table with my grandmother and saying that to her. And I'm the same person I was when I was 16. Yeah, probably at that time. She was probably about the age I am now. But I thought she was old as the hills. Yes, yeah. Right. And so we do when we're young, we think we're always going to be young or old. We think of ourselves old people and young. The truth is, we're neither one we're not the young person or the old person we're at.

Lissa Friedman  43:21  
We're not even we're not even a person. Not even a person. We're not even just a Liping. No, that's yeah, I like, I like the nested thing a lot.

Brian Smith  43:34  
It's, it's kind of where I am at this point, you know, as I'm evolving through this, and as I said, sometimes you just have to say, Okay, I just really can't understand this, that there's no time and I'm, I'm multi dimensional. And Seth talks about like, well, that personality that lead is that spice merchant Denmark, that personality is still exists, and it's still going on. It's still part of me, and but it does its own thing. And I'm like, wow, that's really crazy.

Lissa Friedman  44:03  
Yeah, right. Right. Right. Yeah.

Brian Smith  44:08  
So I like the fact that what you're doing is helping people to open up to this to start to start to understand it. Because I think it's really important in our world, that we move beyond the small thing that we think that we are, I mean, that's the that's the cause of like, 99% of the problems we have in the world.

Lissa Friedman  44:28  
I totally agree with you. I think it is because of a a we could say Oh, but 99 is good enough.

Brian Smith  44:35  
Yeah, I've just got myself a little bit of wiggle room. But yeah, the fact that it's like okay, well, I can't if I get this than that, or you get this then I can have it and vice versa. And not being able to understand where people other people are coming from, you know, well, right, the the gender thing, but clearly there are only two genders and I'm a male and you're a female. Why can't you feel You got out.

Lissa Friedman  45:02  
Right? So simple. Yeah. But I think it's the beginning of, of entering into boundless. Like, if we were if we keep proliferating. Okay, this right now this for those five, no, there's 10, there's 1230. This 40 was like, you know, it's like, okay begins to be like, All right, it maybe it's infinite, and maybe it doesn't matter. Right, right. That's where it actually doesn't matter, because it's so hard to figure it out.

Brian Smith  45:36  
Just a couple of days ago, there were, you know, we have, we're having another crisis at the border, because we got, you know, people are coming because of the COVID restrictions or something, there's gonna be a lot of people coming. And again, this is just the way I think, why do we have countries anyway? Well, let's get rid of the bank.

Lissa Friedman  45:56  
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah. And so the little unique thing that is happening, and I don't think it's just happening through me, when I, what we might call me, I think it's happening in lots of different places around the world as the Yeah, around the world, is that there's this this energetic shift that happens when I allow this connection to happen. helps people have a inexperience in that moment of, oh, oh, oh, I Oh, that's, you know, and they don't have the words for it. But it helps actually get that connection.

Brian Smith  46:44  
Yeah, I was. party on Saturday night was having conversation with the neighbor next door, and I live in a very conservative area. And and we've only talked at that level a couple of times. And she said, Well, I'm a middle of the road kind of person. And because she doesn't want to be, you know, picky. We're talking about certain things. We've talked about a couple issues. And we're talking about choice, you know, women having the right to choose, I believe women should have the right to choose what she said. I said, Okay, well, she says that make me a liberal. Oh, it doesn't make you anything. It just women, you think women should have a right to choose. And we talked about another issue. And she goes well, but I'm supposed to be you know, on that side? I said, no, there are there are no sides. You know, if you feel that women should read the right to choose, you shouldn't be defined by the fact that, you know, your father was a Republican. And that's the position that you have to take. And that's what these these boxes that we put ourselves and we get tied up in knots.

Lissa Friedman  47:42  
And that's the identity thing. Right? We're gonna identify politically as something and then we find ourselves thinking outside that box. Oh, my God, we're challenging our identity. Yeah, there's forget about it, you know? Yeah.

Brian Smith  47:59  
It's politics is its religion, you know, and the thing is, so if I say something that disagrees with your religion, then you feel personally attacked. Right? You because You identified with

Lissa Friedman  48:11  
it? That's when I am right. Yeah, it all has to go. And you know, what I also like to share with people because there have been moments for everyone, when they believed in nothing. They were no political. They were on a political side. They weren't on any side of a wall. You know, and in the moments, you don't realize it. So for some in the Asheville area, people love to go hiking, hiking up in the mountains, and it's beautiful, right? And so there's, there's usually a moment where somebody's hiking, and they reach the top of something, they look at the VISTA and they go. And they're one right then. Right. And there isn't a belief that I'm one isn't a belief and how beautiful it is here. There isn't a belief and I'm a person, I'm this is all gone. And in that moment, nothing to find them. Now, the mind comes back in and says, Oh, this is a good spot. I'll have to come back here. I like to it should take a picture of it. And then I can go, I can look at it at home and do that again. And it never does. It never works again. Because in that moment, there was no effort. There was no trying. There was no belief. It just opened like that. And so it's one of the things that's important around knowing really the truth that I am boundless is relaxing deeply. You know, how do we let go of everything you can't, but you can relax deeply And you can accept whatever is showing up, you can be in a mode of, I'm not going to fight with my thoughts. I'm not going to have any concept that I should have no thoughts in my mind. Yeah. No, I'm gonna just let them be there. I'm going to accept that. Right now I feel this, but okay, I'm gonna let that go and just feel that there's no right or wrong, it's all included, whatever's going on is included. And as I sit and relax even more deeply allowing and including, I'm stepping out of something, I'm stepping out of my separate cell. And I'm relaxing deeply in deep acceptance. And then, yeah,

Brian Smith  50:49  
what you just said, reminded me because I wanted to come back to Transcendental Meditation, because you said you only do that for a few years, and then you did something else. I'm working with the guy who was part of the early TM movement, Kelvin chin, you might know his name. But Kelvin teaches a style of meditation called Turning within now, is that part of the TM movement, either? So what do you still do meditation? And

Lissa Friedman  51:12  
I do? I do. Yeah, I do what I'm talking about. And and it's more like, abiding? I love that word. Yeah. You know, so it is. Yeah, I sit with my eyes closed, and just let go. Just like oh, and and you know, and there's effortless noticing of what's going on? Maybe there's maybe this feelings, sensations. But if there's, so I'll give you a little example of a stepping out of things. So let's say you sit to meditate, or I sit to meditate, and there's something nagging at me. Whatever I should, I should cancel that meeting, bothering, canceled, you know, it's too much she canceled the meeting. And I was like, okay, except that this is going on. And I can't make the decision right now. But I can I can feel and see the, the thoughts around it and the tightness around it. And, and that that's like a little bowl or bundle of something that is, you know, contracted. Sure. And it's not a big issue, right. So, you know, but it could it could be, but it's not, but it's enough to get my it's distracting me. So I kind of like put it all together and become the observer of it. Okay, I can see that. Yeah, I see that dilemma. And I stepped back into being the observer. But then I become aware that something else knows about this observer as well. And I lean back into that. That is what I call boundless. But in that moment, it has no label, it's just this something else there that knows about the observer and the dilemma. Boundless. And as I just said, Let go relax deeply. And that separate self that has a dilemma just begins to dissolve into boundless itself. And then that could be my meditation. If there is no issue, then I just sit as Wow. You know, relaxing, relaxing and being.

Brian Smith  53:45  
So think, Yeah, nothing would ask you back to most fast about the Enneagram. So how does the Enneagram how does that play?

Lissa Friedman  53:52  
Out? Good question. So I worked with and studied the Enneagram for many years. And I you know, I, I just recently retired from teaching the Enneagram. You know, at some point, you have to retire from something. So, and I had set up the school and my daughter teaches, and she teaches the essence of the Enneagram. And so, and there's three really good teachers in the school. So it's like, Wow, you got it. You all got it. I can just let you have it, and back out. But while it was a really important piece for me, so that was when I began teaching it. I have to backup so one of the things that I did for a long time was I'm hesitant to mention names. So I studied with a group of people who call it was part of a mystery school and one of the things that we studied was the Enneagram and When I left the mystery school, I had signed papers to never teach anything that I learned within there. So I'm being a psychotherapist and working with people and, and, and doing my own work, right and realizing that we're all reaching a wall, something that we're willing to let go of this and process that and release this. And then if I say and now, like, oh, this, everybody says whatever this is, it's different, you know, the, the person will say anything, but that I'll do anything, but I can't do that. And so I'm thinking, this is the pattern, this is that any type pattern that will not that really feels like, if, if you if I let go of it, I will die. And for me, I have the two patterns. And so I'm looking at myself while I'm looking at everybody else, and I'm realizing that if I don't do nice things for people, they won't love me, and I will be alone, and I will die. That my value is that I do nice things for people. And I have to look at that. And I'm then I'm looking at my clients and saying, Okay, I'm recognizing this pattern, and that one, and that pattern in that one. And that pattern in that one. So I started relearning the Enneagram, from several other teachers so that I wouldn't breach my contract. And we're, you know, like, there's nothing wrong with learning from somebody else. And then taking that knowledge and sharing it. So I spend studying and learning from a lot of other people. And then and then I began teaching people. And what I realized that and it's, so it's connected to the light beings as well. But when I learned something, I learned it and feel it energetically in my body. So I was beginning to recognize that each, any type has its own energetic component. And, and it has its own core, not that it is like doesn't want to let go of it feels like it's gonna die. You know, and it's, it's really so identity. And so, so for me, recognizing that to pattern in me after having several spiritual teachers, and meditating for maybe 2030 years, I was still acting from this pattern. And it was still running the show. So it's like, that's a it's a powerful tool. Yeah. And particularly if people use it for awakening or liberation, I don't like the use of the Enneagram, to put people in boxes and judge them, or to put yourself in a box and judge yourself, or to become a better separate person that has this type.

Brian Smith  58:13  
Yeah, you know, it's really interesting, as you were, say, as we were having that you were talking about that I've taken something called Positive Intelligence. And it's something that I teach now. And it's a lot of these things are similar. It says that we are a sage, that's, that's who we are at our core. But we also all have this thing we call the judge. And then we have like these accomplished saboteurs. And they're like, eight of them. vigilant, there's a perfectionist, there's the pleaser, there's these different contours. And the guy that teaches I love him because he always says, Don't say, I am a hyper vigilant don't say I am a pleaser. You have this characteristic. who you are. Exactly. That's my fear with some of these type things. Because people will say I am a two.

Lissa Friedman  59:02  
Exactly. And I'll say I have the I have the two pattern. Yeah, yeah. And so and in your in your method that it may have the same thing to is that having the two pattern can be contracted or can be liberated. Right. Right. Right. And,

Brian Smith  59:25  
yeah, it takes something that's actually a good thing. We want to be pleasant to people, we want to be nice to people and over uses it to the point where it becomes detrimental. So we have to learn how to how to use that wisely. So that it's not a it's not something we're beating ourselves up with. But it becomes it's a tool. It's good to be good to people. It's

Lissa Friedman  59:47  
as long as it's like your identity there was I don't even remember who this person was. But he was, I think was being interviewed by someone. And this is so vague but what stuck with He was He said, If I wake up in the morning, and I don't feel good about myself, I buy a bunch of doughnuts, and I go out and give them to all the homeless people. And then I feel good about myself. Interesting. And I'm thinking, that's a nice thing. I mean, I would rather not doughnuts, but. But it's, it sounded to me like someone with a two pattern meeting to see the identity of being a two. So you say you would feel better, rather than do something that just made them feel better.

Brian Smith  1:00:38  
And that's where when I work with clients, it's like, it's not what you do. It's the motivation, you do it from your exact same act. And, you know, I was telling my clients that, you know, eating healthy is a way of self care, we should all try to eat healthy. But also one day, you might just want to have a doughnut. Exactly. That could also be an act of self care.

Lissa Friedman  1:01:00  
Absolutely, completely agree with you. Absolutely. And it's not though if you feel guilty and shame yourself about eating the data. But if you're totally well that Oh, not. And enjoy completely, then it's, it could be an act of self love.

Brian Smith  1:01:19  
Yeah. So this, this comes back around to that thing about, you know, understanding who we are understanding that we are all this boundless thing, we're having these, this human experience that what we're going through these things and, and in this particular incarnation, because I was talking with someone the other day, and they were saying that I need to let go of my, my intellect, I rely too much on my intellect, and you should really, you know, let go a more like that. And I was listening to Christian Sundberg, who's had these multiple life experiences, and he talked about like, instead, in this life, I decided I was gonna have a good intellect. So that's fine. That's my thing. That was one of my things with this life. And I'm like, okay, maybe another life. I wasn't like this, but this is who I am in this life. And that's okay.

Lissa Friedman  1:02:02  
Yeah, yeah. And know that your boundless with a good with a good intellect.

Brian Smith  1:02:08  
Yeah, yeah. So we all

Lissa Friedman  1:02:11  
you see, the difference is that, and I fear I mean, I've, I've spoken to been around people who have the identity of intellect, and I don't feel that in you.

Brian Smith  1:02:24  
Um, yeah, it's, it's common way of processing things, I guess, you know, because I'm, I, when I was a little kid, and I started having all these issues about like, death and hell and all the things I went through. Alone. I turned to books. I'm like, I'm just going to read everything I can possibly find. And I still do that, you know, I, every day I'm reading something else. Yeah,

Lissa Friedman  1:02:47  
I see what you're saying.

Brian Smith  1:02:49  
Yeah, I'm not I'm not as much of a feeler I'm trying to be more of that, you know. And it's funny, I was working with Kelvin, who I said, he came up in the TM movement, he was really high up in it. And he teaches something called Turning within now. So I'm, I've been meditating for 30 years, probably at this point. And I'm like, Kelvin, Am I doing it? Right? And am I because there is no doing it? Right? Yep. Still doing it wrong. The only thing wrong is if you're trying too hard.

Lissa Friedman  1:03:14  
So I like him. Yeah, like, yeah,

Brian Smith  1:03:17  
that's, that's so when you were talking, I'm like, This is what I'm doing. It's like, okay, just just let it go. Just just let it go. And even if you're having a quote, bad meditation, the fact that you meditated men's means that that's what it was supposed to be.

Lissa Friedman  1:03:32  
That's right. That's right. Yeah.

Brian Smith  1:03:36  
But tell people about your books a little bit more about your books, okay, what they can find them and where they can get them.

Lissa Friedman  1:03:42  
Yeah, okay. So, two books, the first one was brown is boundless. And in that list, I describe from many, many different angles, how to let go into boundless, how to find it, and how to recognize it and how to let go into it. And some stories about how what happened for me like the six year old story and light beings and energy and the Enneagram. And you know, so a lot of that is in that book, and it's on Amazon and so on on Audible and paperback and Kindle. And then from the heart of boundless is is also how you get to boundless But it occurred to me that there are many different things that come up and in us that block it and how to deal with that. So it's a little bit of a practice more a little bit more practical in a sense. And it is also audible and on Kindle and paperback so they can get it there. And also, let me say that I have a Monday, Monday night zoom group. Actually, I have so I have a Monday night zoom group on the I'm trying to think which Mondays they are because they're two Mondays a month, but they can look it up on my website. And it's Monday is only zoom. And two, Monday's a month is zoom and in person. So if you're in the Asheville area, you could actually come to a meeting. And in in those meetings, I play the crystal singing bowls a little bit. We meditate a little bit, and then I let go and go into that state where I'm receiving from another dimension or from boundless itself, we could say, and people ask questions and their answers. And so that's the process on the Zoom and the in person. Monday night thing. I also do retreats in this area. Yeah. So there's one in the fall in flat rock, North Carolina. Beautiful, beautiful place.

Brian Smith  1:05:59  
Nice. Sounds great. So how can people reach you?

Lissa Friedman  1:06:03  
So Alyssa l friedman.com. Is the website. Li SSA L. Fr. I e, d ma n.com is the website and then you can email me through that website. That's probably the best way.

Brian Smith  1:06:24  
Yeah. Well, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Thanks so much for Yeah,

Lissa Friedman  1:06:27  
I had fun. Yeah, good.

Brian Smith  1:06:32  
rest of your day. You

Lissa Friedman  1:06:33  
too. Okay.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai