You've heard of Near Death Experiences. You might not be as familiar with Shared Death Experiences. When Lisa Jones' husband passed into the next life, she was allowed to go to the celebration in heaven with him.
After her transformative shared-death experience, Lisa Jones began communicating with a collective energy known as the Beings of Love and Light, BOLAL. Lisa shares this loving, calm energy with humanity, to help them navigate the ever-changing challenges of living life on earth.
Lisa Jones is the author of the Art of Living Happy After the Loss of a Loved One, inspirational speaker, intuitive guide, and consultant for top-level performers in global business, high-profile celebrities, and individuals. Her life-changing meditations, podcasts, and stage shows reach and teach the powerful potential of spirit, abundance, and the key to true inner happiness.
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Brian Smith 0:00
Close your eyes and imagine
what are the things in life the causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed we've been planted and having been planted, who grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith.
Hi there. Before we start, Brian would like to share a couple of things with you. First, did you know that Brian is a life coach, a grief guide and a mental fitness trainer? Brian would love to help you with whatever life issues are challenging you. Brian has years of experience as well as training. You can contact Brian at WWW dot grief to growth.com to learn more. Brian is the author of the best selling book grief to growth planted not buried, which you can get on Amazon or Brian's website. This is a great book if you're in grief or to give to someone you know who is dealing with grief. Lastly, Brian creates free and paid resources for your growth. Go to www dot grief to growth.com/gifts www.gr IE F to growth.com to sign up for his newsletter, choose a gift just for signing up and keep up with what Brian is offering. And now here's today's episode. Please enjoy.
Brian Smith 1:46
Hi, everybody, this is Brian Smith with grief to growth and I'm back with my guest today Lisa Jones and Lisa has a fascinating tale to tell of her experiences with the other world. So I'm gonna at least slightly just tell her story. But I'm gonna read a short introduction and then I'll bring her in and we'll talk as we always do. If you want to go back Lisa has been on the program once before. I'll link to it in the show notes if you want to go back and watch your previous interview. After a transformative shared that shared death experience least she began communicating with the collective energy known as the beings of love and light, otherwise known as Palau. She shares his love loving calm energy with humanity to help them navigate the ever changing challenges of life, living life on Earth. She's the author of The Art of Living happy after the loss of a loved one. She's an inspirational speaker. She's an intuitive guide and consultant for top level performance and global business, high profile celebrities and individuals alike. Her life changing meditations, podcasts and stage shows reach and teach the powerful potential of spirit abundance, and the key to true inner happiness. And I've talked to Lisa, before we get started here, and I know she's got some fascinating stories to tell us today. So with that I want to bring in Lisa Jones.
Lisa Jones 3:02
Hey, Brian is so great to see you again. Thanks for having me. It's great to have you back. Lisa, I know you when you were here before we talked about your shared death experience. And so maybe we can start there and tell people about that and talk first of all people tell what shared death experiences because a lot of people don't know. Absolutely, I'd be happy to share. And you know, back when this happened to me, I didn't know what it was. And I don't even think we had you know, our society knew much about it. But now they're actually studying shared death experiences at the University of California in Santa Barbara. And so it's been fascinating working with with their team and sharing my multiple shared death experiences now, but 18 years ago on February 22 2004, my first husband he had been sick with cancer for seven years. And he ended up transitioning on that night. And just before he took his last breath I had I been with him I'd been his caregiver for seven years and
and I'd kissed him on the forehead and I went to my daughter's room because his brother and best friend had come to our house and my kids actually were out of the house that night. And so it was really the first time I had a moment just to be in my own while I was in my daughter's room but just have a little space and I just I prayed to God and and just said you know, please help us. Hospice was here today. And they said that it's going to be another couple of weeks before he takes his last breath. But I'm just you know, I need help. I need strength and I fell asleep. But the next thing I know I literally my soul just came out of my body and I was escorted with two angels. And I went to the place that I would call heaven. I mean it was the most beautiful pristine I mean every time I think about my whole body is chilling right now because I just when I think of it it just brings me right back there but it was for me it was like a castle like experience. We kind of landed in a field of rolling hills but you could see the castle and then next thing you No, we were in it. And everything was so clean. And that was the one of the things that was so outstanding to it is it was just pristine cleanliness and just just the spotless pneus of the whole experience was was palpable. But then they escorted me down a hallway into this, just kind of a balcony that we looked down on this area where all of these souls are gathering together. And then there was an announcement and it kind of chokes me up, because again, it takes me right back there. But it says, The Grand Mr. Ian sharp is about to arrive. And that was my husband in sharp. And so all of these souls were coming together, and they were all kind of talking amongst themselves. And just the excitement and the, you know, the amazement of this, this soul coming back home was palpable in the room. And so then all of a sudden, let's see, this door just started to open it was almost like this, you know, you could hear this giant, really thick wall of a door start to open. And right at that moment, I saw a foot step forward, and all of a sudden, knock, knock, knock, Lisa, Lisa, wake up, wake up, and just took his last breath. And it was his brother knocking on my daughter's room door where I was asleep. And right at that moment, as everyone started sharing up in heaven that he had arrived, I was like a trap door just fell open, and I just landed back in my body. And so the knocking at the door woke me up. And I was so startled because I mean, here I was in this beautiful place, seeing my husband being welcomed to heaven. And then here I was in my daughter's room and being told that he took his last breath. And I was so in confusion. Because at that point, I was 37, I still had three living grandparents, I really had not experienced death in my life. And so I was, I didn't know what it would feel like when he finally died. And then I was like, so filled with joy and excitement and love. And I mean, the unconditional love, I felt there was again, just the most pervasive feeling being up there. So I was confused. And I ran down to see and it was just his body laying in our, in our bed. And I could I was like, wow, he's not here, I could just tell so clearly. But it just gave me such, I mean, just the calm and the peace and the knowing that he was okay. And, and the crazy part was I was very religious at that point. And I was raised to believe that if you weren't baptized, you would go to hell. And so that was one of my biggest worries is he hadn't been baptized. So I thought, oh my god, you know, he's gonna spend life and eternity in hell and hell. And so the the relief and the comfort that I gained on that evening was, I mean, it just shattered my whole belief system, which then I mean, just last 18 years has been continuing to unfold and in many ways, and then that morning, before I went to tell the children like after he had passed, I had to call the mortuary. And so they came and got his body and, and then it was, I had taken a shower and was blow drying my hair and thinking about what was I going to say to the kids. And all of a sudden, Ian's voice was right in my ear. And he just said, Oh my god, Lisa, I love you. But it's so awesome to hear. And just that knowing that was like my, my final you know.on The eye that I knew that he had actually gone where I had witnessed, you know, him being welcomed to and, and ever since then 18 years he he pops up he, in fact, he just helped me find this new place that I'm living in Maui. And I mean, that's another fabulous story that I'm happy to share. But that's basically how this all started. For me. Prior to that I was an accountant. I was a CPA for Price Waterhouse in San Francisco. And then we moved to DC and I worked for Ernst and Young. And I was basically a bean counter living just a very 3d life. And, you know, just I had no idea, all this amazing, extraordinary events that can happen in this in the spiritual world that that we live in.
Brian Smith 9:18
So I'm curious about what your thoughts were about this shared death experience, because again, it's something that you said you didn't know about, and a lot of people don't know. So what did you think it happened?
Lisa Jones 9:30
Well, it was so interesting, because again, I didn't really understand the ramifications of it at the time. I mean, I just it was something I experienced. I didn't tell a lot of people because frankly, it felt so kind of beyond belief, you know, and a lot of people are like, Well, yeah, but weren't you asleep? Weren't you just dreaming and and I guess for me, I'll say the difference is the minute I start talking about it, I I'm right there. It's not like a dream I had I mean I had dreams this morning. I was just thinking about before we started today and I'm like I can't And remember what the dream was. But this situation this experience this shared death experience is so I can just pull it up. And it's the crystal clarity of the experience of it. And so yeah, so now that they've been studying it, apparently, there's multiple ways that we can have shared death experiences, whether it's actually accompanying the person up to a certain point as they transition. I know a couple of my friends have like been with our mothers where they, they're holding their hand, and then they see them in a field, you know, but then the mother says, I have to go from here. And then they they release hands and they walk over the hill. So there's, there's that there's ways of seeing signs, you know, like premonitions of prior death. And then, you know, signs afterwards that they come to see you like, that's what happened with my mom who died 10 years after my husband is I was visiting her she was in Hawaii, and I was living in Connecticut at the time. So on my as I was leaving her, I was walking out to my rental car, and it's like, I walked through a threshold, it just an invisible threshold, but all of a sudden, I hear you're going to be back in a week and something will have happened to your mother. And I'm like, what, who? Like, how did what I didn't? It was clear, Isabel i It's not like I heard words, it was just this all of a sudden knowing. And I just went on, I didn't even say anything to my mom, because I was like, that was really weird. And I don't I don't I reject that. I don't accept that. Well, a week later, exactly. I got a phone call from my stepdad. And he's like, Oh, my God, Lisa, your mom had a stroke, you need to come, you need to come back. And so I was there I was a week later, exactly back, walking back into that place where I had, you know, pulled my suitcase out earlier. And ultimately, she died five days later. But she also came to me. The night, I got the phone call, I had to repack my bags to fly back there. And I lay down for just a little bit and all of a sudden her energy just washed over me. And she said you told me that we'd be able to communicate when I went to the other side. Here I am. And I thought she had actually died. But she was just out of her body. And she had gotten to my brother that night too. And, and then when I flew I didn't even want to talk to my stepdad. I thought, oh my god, if she died last night, I don't want to know, I just want to get to clay and because I was flying in from New York, and but as soon as I got to the hospital, she sat up, looked me in the eye and then she was unconscious for another five days or four days before she passed. But that was an interesting thing to to realize that people that are in their bodies can still, you know, their souls are mobile. Yeah, yeah, they can move around and visit and talk to you. And yeah, it's been fascinating.
Brian Smith 12:49
So you're saying that since its passing that many years ago that he's he's come to you in? It sounds like even recently helping you? Yes,
Lisa Jones 12:57
yes. Well, even so recently, in February, I got a I've been living in my place here in Maui for just over two years. And then on February 15, I got an email from my landlord saying we're going to increase your rent $600. And I just was like, what? And I just, I was I had a little dog that was close to the end. And I and it's really hard to find a place here on Maui right now. And especially with a dog like nobody will rent to people with dogs. So I was beside myself, I literally thought I was having a heart attack. But I have since realized it was a panic attack that I'm like, okay, if I'm dying, I'm going to the beach, like I just was propelled down to the beach. And I ended up meeting this really lovely lady. I'd never met her before. And we connected and I was practically in tears. And she was commenting on my dog. And I said, Oh my God, I need to find a new place to live. I don't know what I'm going to do. And she said, Oh, my neighbor just found out that their person is leaving the island. Let me introduce you to them. So then, a couple days later, it was actually on February 22, my husband's death date. I met the people that that were, you know, renting this place. And they had never allowed a dog before. But they met tuxedo and they just said, Oh my God, he's adorable. We'd be happy to have him. And then we were just chatting. And they said, you know, well tell us a little bit about us. So Well, I used to work at Price Waterhouse in San Francisco. And they said, Oh, do you know so and so? And I said, Oh my God, yes. Not only do I know him, I worked with him. But he was my late husband's roommate 30 years ago for the two years that we dated in San Francisco. And I mean, if that isn't like somebody guiding me, I mean, I didn't hear about this place through a newspaper through you know, an ad or anything the normal ways that you find housing, it was literally going to the beach running into a woman who I'd never met before and then landing in a place who who work or who was their investment advisor is my late husband's roommate? Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was at my wedding. I mean, their investment advisor was at my wedding 30 years ago with Ian. So again, it's like,
Brian Smith 15:13
yeah, it's amazing that had these synchronicities. They seem to happen more, I think once we recognize that they happen.
Lisa Jones 15:22
Yes, absolutely. Oh, my gosh, I know the synchronicities just go on and on. And I mean, that, to me is one of the more memorable ones as far as you know, something that, you know, from 30 years ago, and so, you know, they call they called my, our mutual friend verified that I had worked. And he's like, Oh, my God, Lisa. Yeah. I mean, he was my investment advisor after my husband died. So you know, and it's been a great, I just feel so blessed to, to be here. And to feel like I had been, you know, my husband's like, looking out for me.
Brian Smith 15:55
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's cool, because I think it lets us know, because sometimes people wonder when our loved ones crossed the other side, do they lose interest in us, they lose interest in things of the earth to become like little balls of light, and they don't care about us anymore.
Lisa Jones 16:11
Yeah, I don't, I have not felt that at all. I mean, I, my mom comes to me as a as a cardinal red Cardinal. And I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if she'll float around here. Because generally, when I speak of that, all of a sudden a red Cardinal appears, I, I really do believe that we can continue a relationship with our loved ones, you know, after they cross, but you have to be number one, open to the idea number two, willing to accept what we can't see, you know, so many people asked me, Well, do you think that was a sign that this and this and this happened? I'm like, if you think it's a sign, it's a sign, you know, and I and I remember helping, I was adopted, and my birth mother had lost one of her kids in a in a car accident. And so I've channeled for her over the, you know, the years and one of the things I said to her is, you know, if you believe it's a sign, or you think it's a sign believe it, because it's hard for them to manipulate our physical world in order to, for us to get those signs. And so if we don't believe, if we're always questioning or dismissing or Oh, that couldn't be well, then I think they do kind of I don't want to say they lose interest, but I think they lose heart and why go to all that effort? If they're not going to accept my, you know, this really intense? I mean, I don't know how hard it is for them to do the signs. But I think it takes some effort. You know, it's not like,
Brian Smith 17:35
yeah, I, from what I understand, it does take some effort. Some people are better at it than others. I think it's a skill that they have to learn and but there is there's a certain amount of effort involved in it. So you know, we should appreciate it, you know, say thank you, like you would have somebody here does something for you. That's right. And if someone keeps doing things for you, and you never say thank you, eventually you're like, kind of like, well, maybe I don't want to do that so much anymore.
Lisa Jones 18:00
Absolutely. In fact, that just reminds me I showed you earlier, hopefully you can see that. But there's a black and white feather. So my my little puppy dog, he transitioned on June 19. And he his name was tuxedo. So I'm telling you, this little puppy dog has been one of the most potent, energetic connections that I've experienced. I mean, even with my loved ones, you know, my people, people, my people, spirits, but first of all, the night that he passed, I was just kind of in that Twilight just falling asleep, you know, kind of awake, but all of a sudden, this just giant wave of energy just came right to me. And it was the most loving, pristine again, clean. It was like being in that heavenly space. But it was totally him. And he's just like, you know, I love you so much, you know, and it just completely pierced my, my heart, you know, wide open. And then I've been getting these black and white feathers wherever I go. Like, you know, like I'm walking now much more. I mean, again, he had gotten to where I had to carry him everywhere. And so I've been walking our new neighborhood, which I hadn't done since we moved in here. And every 100 yards or so there was a black and white feather right on my footsteps. I mean, it was just like you couldn't, I'm like, I've never seen so many feathers on a you know, mile walk or whatever. And then today I went to go get some papayas and bananas, which is what I have every morning for breakfast. And when I went to go put them in my car right on the passenger side door where he would sit and wait for me when I go and run in there to get the papayas and bananas. Not little black and white. You know, feather was there and it just was oh my gosh, so heartwarming.
Brian Smith 19:48
That's that's pretty wild. You know, it's pretty good. So, you were talking about how you know how tuxedo comes to you also, now I'm curious where you were Was there your experience with him? Was that the first experience you had like that when you were communicating with the other side? Do you think that is what opened you up?
Lisa Jones 20:08
I really do. I mean, it's interesting, because now of course, looking back in time, I mean, as a child, I was very, I was getting a lot of signs and things that were happening, but I just never could quite, I didn't understand them. Like, I used to see cowboys and Indians outside my window at night. And I would, you know, run into my mom's room and be like, Oh, my gosh, and she would just dismiss it as you know, childhood imagination. But I really now believe that these were spirits that were coming to me, but I just couldn't, I didn't have I didn't have the support to to even understand or put it into some kind of context other than my mother, just dismissing it. And then the other thing that's been interesting is like, throughout my life, I would just tell the truth and not knowingly telling the truth. I mean, this one's kind of a little, it could be triggering for people that my my minister ended up having sex with girls in our confirmation class, like he would target us one at a time. And I remember him taking me down to the basement one night, and he was just acting so weird. And I just intuitively was like, let me out of here. And so I left. But then, you know, later that year, we went to the Lutheran youth convention down in San Antonio, Texas. And so we had a whole busload of kids and we went down and he had rented an extra, an extra hotel room. And so we were down on the on the boardwalk down there, whatever they call it, The Riverwalk, and my best friend's and, and Pastor Peter, were not with us. And somebody's like, where are they? I said, Oh, they're up in that extra hotel room having sex, like completely thinking I was being funny. But that's exactly what was happening. And it was later. I mean, my girlfriend told me later that that's what had happened. And then he ultimately was dismissed from the church, because he had admitted to all of this, and I guess he had done it at a prior church, and they passed him on to our church. So but I've got multiple things like that, again, growing up that I didn't even know, I was telling the truth, or, you know, things just come out of me. In fact, when I, when I did start doing this work, I was invited to radio show Star 99.9, just outside New York City. And so I was meeting with the DJs. And he's like, Well, how does this work? You know, I'm pretty skeptical. And I said, I don't know. It's not like I just walk up to you and say, so what's going on with your mom's heart? You know, she obviously needs to get that checked out. And he's like, his eyes got like, as big as saucers. And he's like, She's at the hospital right now. Getting her heart checked out. I was like, Whoa, I didn't even know it worked like that. Like I. I mean, so that's what's so been really fascinating is, even though I feel like eons. That night. I always call it divine dispensation. I feel like they gave that to me as a gift to know that he was going to be okay, because I was so concerned that he was going to be going to hell that it really allowed me to move forward. And my kids were only eight and 10 when he died. So I think had I had I believe that he'd gone to hell. I think I just I don't know if I could have ever gotten out of that. Depression.
Brian Smith 23:19
Yeah, just I just want to interject this really quickly. Because before we started recording, I this is like the in the afternoon for me, we started scoring about five o'clock, we were talking about getting ready for the recording. And you said to me, there's probably not much you have to do. You probably just like wash your face and brush your teeth or something. Well, I don't think I've ever washed my face before. I've done a podcast before, but I did today.
Lisa Jones 23:44
Not as crazy. See, that's the kind of stuff that I don't even know that I'm writing because I mean, had you not told me that right now. I wouldn't even know that. So thank you.
Brian Smith 23:53
I'm pretty sure it's the first time I've ever done that. But it's like I said, it's kind of late in the day. And I'm like I need to kind of freshen up so I just like I've got I literally I have two minutes. I'm gonna go upstairs and wash my face before I do the podcast.
Lisa Jones 24:03
Oh my gosh, that is so funny. Yeah, cuz I was commenting. I'm like, you know, guys have it so easy. I mean, would you do wash your face and get ready to go and meanwhile, here I am, like putting my makeup on. So there you go. There's another one of those just comes out of me. And I don't it's so easy. It's not even like, I mean, it's just what comes out of me. It's crazy.
Brian Smith 24:21
Yeah, well, I think we're all a lot more connected in ways than we know. And when again, I think once you start to open up it just it just starts to kind of flow through. It's like an avalanche. You mentioned something you know about in your spiritual beliefs, some curious how you reconciled this, this way of thinking versus what you were taught before. Now, I want to give you a little bit of context here. I record videos with people that have had near death experiences. I put them on YouTube, and I get all these people saying, well, that's not biblical. That couldn't possibly have happened. They he didn't see Jesus. That's not difficult. Reincarnation can't possibly be true. All these things So how did you how did you reconcile this with what what you believe before?
Lisa Jones 25:04
Oh, boy, well, I'll tell you what my entire foundation completely crumbled beneath my feet. And I just let it go. Because I believed number one, and actually, it's really apropos that I shared the story about my minister basically, you know, defiling all the girls in my class. I mean, there were, I mean, I think you had sex with eight or 10 of us in that in that class. But he taught me he taught me the 10 commandments, he taught me my beliefs. I mean, I'm getting chills because I believed him. I, you know, I looked up to him, he was he was the foundation like, she's the one that built the foundation of what I believed in, in my life. And so for him, to have been a human, and have done things that I felt were not in alignment with the Bible. When I found this out in college, I mean, I didn't find out for a few years after it all happened. And my mother called me I remember freshman year in college, and, you know, we didn't have cell phones back then. I mean, it was a phone, you know, on the wall, and it was like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, did Pastor Peter ever touch you because he's just admitted. And, um, I totally didn't, I said, That's not true. He didn't do that, like I was defending him, originally, because I believed in him so much. So that was the first kind of crumbling of my foundation. But I still believed in God, I still like was like, Okay, that was just him. But I did step away for a long time. And then when we had children in and I got married, and we had two children, I became an Episcopalian and started teaching Sunday school, and then that's when he got, you know, when he was dying, and that community was so wonderful and so supportive. But the night that he died, and I saw that, you know, there's just a direct connection, we don't need this middleman kind of thing. I really was able to just let it go. And, and it's only been recently, actually, within the last six or eight months, in fact that I've picked the Bible up again. And I'm finding some nuggets of gold in there. But I'm also not going to use it as, for me, the foundation of any belief system I have, I mean, I think it's a great what would you call it like a guidebook? But, you know, there's some things in there. I mean, I do not believe that our God is a damning Bremen fight with fire and brimstone kind of being. I mean, I just don't I think he's all pure loves. And so anything in the Bible, that's him damning people are this is the I just can't I won't, I don't believe that.
Brian Smith 27:43
No, I understand. I, you know, I, I try to be very cautious when I talk about religion, because I don't want to take anything away from any right now.
Lisa Jones 27:51
Exactly. I know. And I so I apologize to anybody if I've offended you. But these are my beliefs. So no,
Brian Smith 27:56
I think I think we just say what was fine. But I think of religion is kind of like training wheels. You know, it's a great way. For some of us, I guess, to get started. But I'm actually putting together some classes right now. And the thing I always say is like, Why believe when you can know, you know, we have these resources available to us now. You know, I can talk to someone who's had a shared death experience, I can talk to someone who's had a near death experience. I can talk to people who have been on the other side, the Bible's really cool. And I believe that Paul had a near death experience when he talked about on the road to Damascus, to me, that sounds like a near death experience. I believe he had an out of body experience when he was praying. So if he could do that, 2000 years ago, why can't Lisa do it now?
Lisa Jones 28:45
Yeah, I love that. And I love the training little aspect because I do believe that we come here without any memory whatsoever. I mean, that's the whole premise is that we've agreed to come down here and to experience the physical life, physical beings, being a physical being and you know, it's just, I don't know, for me, like I said, I just I think there's some nuggets of gold in there. And and I think there's some but but it's almost like that game of telephone, you know, where you start saying, you know, you start in a circle. And the way it's been translated so many different times, and so many different languages, and you know, you know, especially now after we've lived through what we've lived through the last couple of years, the amount of what do you want to call it propaganda for whatever it is, I mean, they've taken all the women out of the Bible, for goodness sakes, I mean, you know, that's to me, right there alone is like, what the credibility makes it difficult for me to buy into when you know, it's been tampered with for various reasons. And, and again, for those of you that love the Bible, and live your life by the Bible, fabulous, that's wonderful. I think everyone should do what feels good to them. But for me, yeah, it's kind of like,
Brian Smith 29:59
I think everyone should Do what feels good to them as long as it makes them a better person, you know, and nothing is
Lisa Jones 30:04
not and they're not. And they're not like judging others for them not doing what they're doing.
Brian Smith 30:08
Right. Right, exactly. So yeah, I'm glad we had that conversation, because I think that's really interesting. You know, for this, I went through a deconstruction, because I couldn't believe that guy was damaged gotten so many people to hell, it just made no sense to me. So, yeah, and I remember several times as I was going through it, it would be it's scary. You know, you mentioned the foundation crumbling, and you feel like your whole world is falling apart. This is what you believed your whole life. And this isn't true than what else isn't true. But I want to encourage people that, you know, God doesn't fear your questions.
Lisa Jones 30:45
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, you know, again, after these last couple of years to I mean, I've had another deconstruction of what, you know, what is true? Who, who's, I mean, you know, like, if five people watch a car accident happen, every single person has a different viewpoint of what happened. And so what is the truth? You know, I mean, I think that's what it comes down to. And, and I love the idea that, you know, we're all we're all our individual beings with, with our own experience, but yet, ultimately, we're all one. And so we're, you know, we're, we are creating the experience that, you know, that other people are having, and I don't know, I mean, it's, it gets so crazy. I think that's the other thing. We don't know. I mean, that's the other thing is, if people were like, this was the way it is, and this is I know, this is the truth, then I'm like, yeah, no, like I, anybody that is 100% certain about anything for me. I mean, I just, it's hard to buy that for me. I mean, because we're always learning new things like right now, even like science would believe the science. Well, tomorrow, the science is different, because they did a new experiment, and now the science is changing. So I don't understand, like, where where do you draw the line? And like, okay, we're not gonna, we're not, we're not going to keep learning or uncovering new and amazing things. I mean, now they've proven like, what did they call the DNA, the god gene, or something like they're getting closer to spirituality and religion is getting, or spirituality and science are getting closer and closer, because, you know, but there's still stuff we're never gonna understand.
Brian Smith 32:23
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm my backgrounds in engineering. So I'm in your background in accounting, so we're analytical kind of people. So I like I like that the analytical part of it. And I do think that science and faith or spirituality are kind of dovetailing together and we're starting to understand that consciousness is really at the base of everything. So I love the fact that, you know, you're, you're sharing these experiences and that you were open to, okay, we change based on evidence, right, we see evidence that it's fine. And that makes sense. I think that speaks to our heart, I think, you know, it's interesting, I talked to so many people who are still in that and, you know, quick story, I was sitting with a couple of pastors one day, and we were talking about the concept of hell, and I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I said, How do you believe that all these people around us are gonna go to hell? Every, you know, pretty much everybody here is gonna go to hell. And how do you sit here and have lunch? I don't understand it. But you know, I think our heart tells us that's that. That's wrong.
Lisa Jones 33:28
Yeah. I agree with you. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I don't know how how big groups of people can just basically damn all the other groups of people that don't believe I mean, I that to me, it's just not in my heart. Like I'm all about, you know, everybody is worthy of love. And so yeah, and that's
Brian Smith 33:50
what people that have had in the East tell us, you know, that's, that's the almost universal message that comes back from Indians is that we're all we're all worthy. We're all one and all the things that you're saying. So, I know, we were on before we talked about this incredible experience you had with a shared death experience with your husband. But you had tuxedo just recently, and I understand he came to you the night that he died.
Lisa Jones 34:11
Yes, he did. And I think I touched on a little bit earlier, but yeah, he just, you know, I was just right in that twilight zone of falling asleep and the energy just washed over me and I kept thinking of like, like, it was like lace. I was trying to think of what tangible I think that's part of it is so difficult to find words for the things that we're experiencing that are not of this world. But it was almost like lace, but then later I thought no, it was almost like a snowflake. Because if you've ever seen a snowflake, you know blown up under a microscope. It's just so intricate and delicate. And again, that pristine and just oh my god, it was it was beautiful. So and now the best thing is he can Speak English to me because animal communication has never been one of my strong suits in this experience on this in this go round of my life. But now like I have a convertible, so all of a sudden, l he'll, he'll be like, Mom, look at me, I'm riding with my head above the windshield, you know, with my paws up there. And I'm like, I don't see him. But I hear Him say these things. And I'm like, Well, maybe I'm just crazy. I don't know. But it's so fun because I can feel his energy I can feel the presence of him there and the playfulness and, and the freedom that he now has, because he had gotten so old, and he had so much arthritis, it was hard for him to walk around. So I was carrying him down at the beach every day. And so yeah, so and I have my freedom. Now, we were also chatting earlier, like, I mean, I've been a caregiver for such a long time between my husband, illness and death and then raising my two children. And then I mean, my kids, you know, left and went off to college, and they're, they're now in their late 20s. But I had to tuxedo still so I you know, it was like this kind of cascading role that I've played in my life. And now really, for the first time I'm free, and I'm still kind of like, Oh, now what?
Brian Smith 36:09
Yeah, well, on for new faces new faces, right?
Lisa Jones 36:13
That's right, exactly.
Brian Smith 36:15
So you, you've had a couple really interesting experiences with some people that we know we've heard of. So tell me about your experience with rom Das,
Lisa Jones 36:23
oh, my gosh, ROM Das. He's such a love. And I had heard of him. I'd never read any of his books. And actually, I've not read any books since I've even met him. But I moved here. I'm in my sixth summer here now. And within the first week or so of arriving here, I met a gentleman who was a part of his inner circle. And I said, Well, gosh, I'd love to, you know, meet him someday or whatever. And he said, Oh, well, there's actually an event happening. It's a fundraiser and there's an extra ticket I just heard with, you know, if you're interested and I said absolutely. Well, it turns out it was rom Das is personal assistance, extra ticket. So I was sitting next to rom Das. During this three hour events at the it was called the Maori arts and cultural center. This was back in February of 2017. So that was my first connection with them. And literally all these people that have been hanging around rom das for 30 plus years are looking at me like who's the new girl like where did she come from, but for whatever reason, ROM das and I just kept running into each other. And I have a beautiful photo of us down at the beach because he would swim every Monday morning. And so I was invited to go hang out with the crew and swim with him. And he had had a stroke. So he needed a lot of extra care and getting him into the water, you know, took some some extra energy. So then over the last, well he died in 2019. So during that time, I guess it was just over two, two years going on three years. I just kept getting into those inner circle situations. His caregiver and I took hospice training together. So then I was invited to this event at rom das house where we were tying Maha Rashi. That was his his Indian guru, some of his blanket onto these little bracelets for rom das his next event. And while we were there, Ron came out and gifted each one of us there was maybe only eight or eight people there. So he and I locked eyes and just huh. So the night the day that he passed, it was actually December 22 2019 Interesting. Both my husband died on February 22. And Ron died on December 22. All of a sudden, I had had a nap. Again, not a normal thing for me. But I remember that day I had lay down and when I got up from my nap, I was standing next to my bed and it was almost like somebody pushed me. I fell onto my bed. And I turned around I said rom das What are you doing? I mean, it just again burst out of my mouth, kind of like me asking about you washing your face or saying that. And I didn't even I didn't think about it. But an hour later, I get a text and it said rom das had passed away and I'm like, oh my god, he did a drive by and literally pushed me off my feet when he when he left the next day. So that was on the 23rd I had gone for a chiropractic visit and I was laying on the table waiting for the chiropractor and all of a sudden Ron Dawson's energy was just hovering right above me and in my mind, I said Tom, what are you doing? Go to the light go to the light. Lisa, you are the light. And then his energy just floated down on top of me just like a beautiful blanket just so loving and so kind and then I was invited to his home on Christmas day to sit in, you know, in reverence of his body being laid out there. So I got to sit with his body. I went over and I placed my hands on top of his hands that were on his heart. And as soon as I did that I close my eyes and he just took me out into the stars, and took me just on this beautiful my whole body is chilling, which always means truth to me just out into the stars out into the universe, and just, we were just, I don't know, we just went together. And, and since then I have a couple pictures of them in my home, and he just comes to me and gives me love and encouragement and, and he's just having so much fun. He's so thrilled to be out of his physical body that kept him so you know, tethered to not being able to move much here on this on this land. But
Brian Smith 40:39
I understand you had an experience with Robin Williams,
Lisa Jones 40:41
oh, my gosh, Robin Williams, and this is powerful. This was he came to me soon after, you know, he had passed and he had committed suicide, which was a huge situation for a lot of people to you know, except that because he was such a happy, you know, he was a funny guy and everything. But he did, he did. He did suffer from depression. And I guess there was, you know, he was fighting some other medical issues near the end. So what he told me, and I feel like I've shared this with many people that have experienced suicide in their, in their family, that, and it's been helpful to them. But so So Robin said, you know, I want to explain suicide in our society has such a negative connotation, because it's almost like, oh, the person was weak willed are they, you know, they didn't have, you know, they didn't have the help they needed if, and like family thinks, oh, if I was only there and could have helped them. He said, Let me explain it like this, when somebody has cancer. We don't, you know, shame them about how they die, we don't say, oh, my gosh, if they had only, you know, fought harder, you know, whatever. It's like their physical body shuts down. And that's then what ends their life. And he said, Lisa, you know, I was in such torment, my mental body died in my being, the only way that a mental body can then release itself from the physical body is to have the physical body and its life. And again, I've got chills, as I'm saying this, and again, I'm not gonna say this is the truth for all suicides, people. But this is what Robin Williams shared with me. And many people have said, it's been helpful to understand this in a new way that they are not, they didn't kill themselves, because they couldn't go on or they, you know, were weak willed, or, you know, they were, it's literally that they another aspect of their body had died. And the only way to release that then was to take their own physical body. And I just, it's been amazing to me to get that new understanding. Because I used to have a lot of judgment, I had to two of my my son's best friends, one of the mothers and the other. The other friend's dad's they both killed themselves, the senior year of my son's experience, and I was very judgmental about them, like, oh, my gosh, how, you know, how selfish of them like they're not, you know, they don't care about the people that are here. And actually one of the the dads came to me through a through a channeling session. And I mean, he he was definitely confused and and didn't realize the impact it would have. But at the same time, it makes sense to me that what Robin Williams said, is that he was so debilitated by the loss of his mental body that he couldn't carry on. Yeah, physical.
Brian Smith 43:38
Yeah, I'm glad to share that thing. It's a really good message because people suicide, it's got. It's so tough in so many ways. You know, as you said, people, we blame ourselves as survivors, I should have known, I should have been able to stop them. We judge the person that has taken their life, as you said, as being weak. Some faith traditions teach that if you take your own life, that you're going to go to hell. So not only were you tormented here, but you're going to be tormented for eternity for not being able to handle it. And so that perspective is why I'm sure is gonna bring a lot of people comfort.
Lisa Jones 44:16
Yeah, I believe so too. And again, like, we would never do that to somebody that died of cancer, or were in a car accident, or, you know, like, shame them or blame them. I mean, I'm sure people do think, well, if we'd only done a different round of chemo, or this or that, I mean, I think it does happen, but somehow suicide is really got, you know, it's just such a stigma. We don't
Brian Smith 44:35
we don't put that blame on the person who's lost their life, the taking their life. That's a good point. You know, it was an haitch I saw an article I think it was yesterday, about an age and you know, what she had done and people were judging her she she burned down some other woman's house, why would she she's, you know, what a terrible thing to do. Well, addiction is not something that people choose, you know, it's it's a If it's a mental issue, it's a mental health issue. So but we, we so much judge mental health issues and and as you said, we've got multiple bodies, the physical body, the mental body, the spiritual body, I don't I don't even know the number you have, and they can become damaged. And so that that makes sense. Yeah.
Lisa Jones 45:21
And and he has come to Me too I did it, we did a really fun thing. It was called Maui, Channel Five, we had five channelers. And we had got up and we did a celebrity night. And so Robin Williams came to me that night, too. And oh, my gosh, I just let him take over my body. And we were just oh my gosh, it was so much fun. We're going to in fact, I'm having lunch with a friend later today. And we're going to talk about doing another and hopefully getting it on video this time.
Brian Smith 45:43
Oh, wow, that sounds cool. You have to let me know about that. I want to shift gears a little bit, because I saw some of your ventures in Egypt, that you that you take the trip there. I saw some pictures. But I understand you had some pretty interesting spiritual experiences there as well. Oh,
Lisa Jones 45:57
my goodness. So yeah, I was in Egypt in November of 2021. And I had no idea that I would be going to Egypt at the end of 2021. I had done a guided meditation with somebody. And probably I guess it was ended up No, it must have been end of September. And during the meditation, and again, these are things like I don't know that these things are going to happen. But all of a sudden goddess Isis just shows up. And, and again, I'm not a very visual person. When I do meditation, it's very just don't get visuals. It's usually just darkness and just kind of unknowing. But but this one goddess Isis just came up, she had a staff in one hand, and she had her crown on and this beautiful gown and just she's like, I am Isis. I am with you now. And I'm like, holy cow. Okay, I don't know what that means. But thank you. So that happened, like on a Monday, well, then Wednesday, I went with a friend up to El valley here in Maui. And it's got this beautiful river. So we were sitting in the river and I said, Hey, let's play a game where we say remember when and you imagine that a year has passed, and that we're reflecting back on, you know, fun things that we wanted to do. And it's kind of a it's a, it's a, it's a way to bring things into your life. So, so we're playing and she says, remember when we went to Egypt, and, you know, we went on the Nile, and we did this and we did that? I'm like, Oh, my gosh, she asked him remember when and so we just kind of played that game talking about Egypt. Well, when we were done, I said, I don't know why, or what about Egypt, I have to go to Egypt. And she's like, Oh, well, the reason I said that is I've got a couple of friends going. And maybe you could go with them. And I'm like, yes. That sounds great. Put me in touch with them. So I was on a Wednesday, and then Friday, she put me in touch with them. And they said, Yeah, we'd love to have you join us. We're taking a very small group. And it'd be great if you could have someone you know, be a roommate to save some money. So I reached out to my son who had always wanted to go to Egypt when he was little. And, and it just happened that he was able he was in between jobs and moving and his passport was good for eight extra months. It was a 10 year passport was going to expire in eight months. But it needed to be good for six months. So he was right in the window. So yeah, so he and I went for two months we had or it for two weeks. And I guess she's just over two years, but it was phenomenal. And it was during the height of you know, COVID and all that. And we were seven people on our trip. Got it out of 20. And but nobody we didn't I mean, we were testing every other day. And so we were totally fine. Well, then we went we I forget if we were I can't remember what's city we were on the Nile doing a cruise. I mean, it was phenomenal. So one of the things that happened was I saw this ring in the window. So it's a golden on. And and I just had to have it. I'm like, oh my god, I have to have that ring. So then I'll come back because a couple of things happen in Egypt. But then when I got back home, a week after I arrived, I got woken up by ISIS and she said go to your Hay House app and search for ISIS. There's a chapter and listen to it. I'm like, okay, so I go and sure enough, there was a book called You are the Goddess and there was a chapter called ISIS. And so I am listening. And basically it says, you have been to Egypt, you have been to my temple, which I was. And you have received the Golden Ark. You are now my initiate. Wow. And I'm like, This is great. So anyway, I'm still that's still unfolding. I'm still trying to like what does that mean? But um, but isn't that I mean, like, first of all, that was one of the weirdest things I've ever woken up to, which was, you know, go to your Hay House app. And
Brian Smith 49:50
yeah, yeah, talk about specifics.
Lisa Jones 49:54
But yeah, when I was in Egypt, we were we'd gone to the museum and there was King Tut. So it was like a golden breast shield. And I walked up to it just, you know, kind of looking around it. And I looked at that, and just immediately, it was like a movie played in my mind. And I was one of his concubines. He died at 18. He was very young, and I had just found out he had died. And we were truly in love. And I just started sobbing right there in the middle of the museum. And this whole thing, just, you know, just played and I had never, I have never experienced anything like that before, you know, in my awake state, and just all of a sudden, just Oh, like having a dream happening right there. And it happened two more times, we were on the Nile River on the cruise, and I looked over and on the hillside, I could see myself as like an eight year old child, just running along and looking at the boats and wishing that I was on a boat. And I my dad was a baker. And, and I was a girl and I was like really envious of the boys because the boys were able to go on the river boats and things and I just couldn't so yeah, it was, it was the most spiritually amazing trip I've ever. I mean, I've never had I guess one time in Rome. I had some few things like that, but not nearly as potent.
Brian Smith 51:19
Yeah, had you been attracted to Egypt before Egyptian culture.
Lisa Jones 51:24
Like literally from that moment, ISIS arrived. I mean, it had never even crossed my mind ever wanting to go to Egypt, not only not wanting to go, but like almost Yeah, nope, I'd never go there. And then hearing about Egypt, and then oh, and it turns out, I mean, ISIS is the she's the queen of Egypt. I had no idea. I didn't know anything about ISIS. And so since since learning, I mean, we went to her temple. I mean, I was just ISIS obsessed when I was in, you know, in Egypt, and just she was showing up everywhere. But interestingly, again, you know, they named that the Taliban or whatever ISIS, like, used, like, what is the word? You know, I want to say ancient spiritual, but you know, like, really powerful like ISIS, the one the goddess, they used her name to, to name a really awful group of people that have tortured and hurt many, many people. And so that's the thing is our society will use sacred words and sacred symbols and names to defile them, because when I've said like, oh, yeah, ISIS, and they're all like, Oh, you mean, the Taliban group? I'm like, no goddess Isis like, so for me. Now, it's hard to even think of the Taliban group, because, um, so like, you know,
Brian Smith 52:46
I'm not sure how that name came about, because other people around the world, some people call them ISIL ISIL. So it's for something for Islamic State. So I think it's America where we started calling it ISIS. I'm not sure about that. But
Lisa Jones 53:01
I because it's funny, you say that I remember hearing somebody say ISIL. And I was like, what, what is its ISIS? Like, what? Yeah, that was years ago when it was happening. So yeah, well, anyway, there is some association with that name. And with you know that and it's fortunate to tie that in there.
Brian Smith 53:18
But yeah, and I find it interesting because I know several people who channel and you channel, as you alluded to several times when we're talking and one of the people I know like, she said she'd met four and we're like before is a myth. Right? You couldn't you couldn't meet Thor. And so we don't these archetypes, you know, apparently they do exist in some form or another?
Lisa Jones 53:43
Yes, I think so. I know, I was I was channeling for my brother. This was years ago. And oh, my God, it was something from what was the Tom Hanks movie with the Toy Story? And I forget who was in there's something with the ZSL the Zelfs I don't know. Anyway, it was basically the something in there that I was, and I'm like, This just doesn't make sense. Because this is from Toy Story. Like, why am I but you know, what I think it is, I mean, for me is and it's kind of coming through right now, is that because there's this collective consciousness, you know, I put it up there, I do believe that we as human beings are able to pick things from there. And then we create, you know, storylines and use these names and use these, you know, archetypes because they're in existence out there, and potentially in reality and another in another form. But we're able to gather those names and some of the ideas and then create stories down here. And that's why it's kind of interesting, like I see. You know, like even in Hollywood think of all of the blockbuster movies where you know, towers are Falling and burning and you know, and then we had 911. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, everything is already out there. I mean, that's I've had, I don't know if you've ever heard that idea before to that, like everything that ever was, and everything that ever is, is already done and, and it's just a matter of lining up those timelines to experience, you know those different things. Yeah, and
Brian Smith 55:21
I believe a lot of the things that when people write, that we create our service channel that's really believed that, you know, musicians, I think people that write stories, write movies, etc, they're, they're channeling these things are coming from they're coming from spirit. And so when we people might dismiss and say, well, that's, that's a myth that the that the Egyptians made up or that submit that the Norwegians made up or maybe it's because they were in contact with something, some some aspect of consciousness because everything is consciousness that they that that has these attributes that we that we admire. Angels, I know a lot of people think angels are myth, but I know a lot of people believed truly. And I've heard you know, it's interesting, because I've heard the angels aren't necessarily individuals are kind of like collectives. And they're so close together that they go by a singular name, which is interesting concept.
Lisa Jones 56:17
I love that. Well, that's like my beings of love and light, you know, I mean, for the longest time, I'm like, Who are you? Like, give me a name? And, and they're like, no, because you humans are so caught up on titles and labels that then you're gonna make it like, we don't want to give you a label that then you're gonna it defines it. We're like, we're undefinable. So they finally said, We're beings of love and light. And I'm like, Okay, well, that's still not like Abraham or Yeah, like, I like sath. Or like, just give me a name. But they just said no, like, if you want to call us anything, you can call us that. And, and truly, I mean, I believe there's angels for everything. I mean, even like putting a necklace on, if I'm having, I'm like, angels, please help me. Boom, it's done. You know, oh, I want a parking spot. Boom, it's right there. But again, you got to believe you got to say thank you. You got to ask. But I've also had angels. I mean, completely. Oh, my God. I mean, a couple years ago, I was driving a car up a road. And a truck blew through a stop sign, like and I was like, oh my god, I'm done. Like, I literally was like, There's no way this is not going to hit me. And I slammed on my break. But I swear to you, it looked like the front of my car. It was like Roger Rabbit it just like it was like an accordion it just like it was like it was rubber just rule. It pulled right up against me. The car, the truck went by me. And then it you know, straightened out again. And um, I mean, it was like, I felt like I was in a cartoon it just how did that happen? Yeah. But I do believe again, when you're open to any possibility that I mean, we are this is all just, you know, molecules, just in, in form. And so if in that moment, the angels, you know, helped me and just created my little cartoon car to save me, because, I mean, it was, there was no way I'm like this giant, you know, four wheel drive truck, going 50 miles an hour. And it was just gonna just,
Brian Smith 58:18
as you told that reminded me one time I was pulling out of my neighborhood, and I wasn't paying attention, I pulled out in front of someone coming in, we're gonna have an accent at a 90 degree angle. And I just knew that she was going to hit me and she knew she was gonna hit me. But somehow, we never climbed it. And it was so she was so convinced that we had hit. She got out of her car and looked at her bumper, but we never touched. My gosh. So I still I'm like, what happened? I don't I don't know. I don't know what happened. I just know that. There was no damage. Neither one of us, but we both knew that we'd hit.
Lisa Jones 58:54
Yeah. Well, I had I had an experience like that, too. I was in a roundabout. It was a two two lane roundabout. And I know, because I was trying to get off and I didn't see this car next to me. And I mean, I felt her I felt her hit my car. And but she ended up going off in another direction. I and I pulled over and gone out and looked at my car and there was not a scratch. There was not anything. I'm like, how, what? That's crazy.
Brian Smith 59:21
So at least we're coming to the end of our time. So tell me what it is. What are you doing now? Are you are you channeling or what are you doing?
Lisa Jones 59:28
Oh, yeah, that's a great question. I mean, as I said, I'm kind of finding my my new way here. I'm really I'm working on defining what it is I do, because I really I don't like the word channel. I don't like the word medium. I mean, again, the labels that our society puts on things. So I loved it. I was talking with someone recently and it said, Wow, it sounds like Lisa like you're an ordinary person that has extraordinary experiences. And I said I love that. I think that is exactly along the lines of what I'm going to start you know Trying to explain or to, you know, to help people because I don't want anyone to think that I have any kind of special powers or things that I mean, everybody has this opportunity to connect in and to, you know, I love to teach automatic handwriting so people can, you know, communicate with, with whatever is beyond us. And, you know, that's my little pals method PHTLS, prepare, Ask, listen and say thank you. And, you know, and it's pretty, it's pretty straightforward. And that's how I got started. In this. Once my husband got sick, I learned how to do automatic handwriting with the angels. And that kind of started opening the door. And then again, it was kind of the crescendo was the night he died and got to be, you know, go to the other side. So, so yeah, so what am I doing? I have, I'm on Facebook, that's really the only place I'm on right now, which actually just took my app off my phone. So I don't know what I'm doing. But it's love from Lisa Jones. I've done some some meditations, which are free. I should put those back up there. But yeah, I'm figuring it out and getting reorganized.
Brian Smith 1:01:07
Yeah, well, you know, I, we all need, we have seasons of our life, right. And we and we tend to rush from one to the other. Right? So take some time and figure out you know, what it is that you you want to do and your next season. I
Lisa Jones 1:01:20
think that's, that's definitely it's a new season for me. Thank you. That's what it feels like so and I'm really enjoying just my downtime and not having to rush home to my dog. And I'm still my, my nervous system is still unwinding because I'll be out and all of a sudden, like, oh, my gosh, I need to go and then it's like, no, you can actually eat at the restaurant today. You don't need to rush home and you know, and make sure that that Tux is okay, so he's He's always with me now. So,
Brian Smith 1:01:47
yeah, that's the thing now is always with you. Right? I know, some people say about my daughter. It's like, you know, when they're in the physical, they can only be with you when they're with you. But now they can always be
Lisa Jones 1:01:57
with you. That's right. I know. And there is I mean, as hard as it is not to have them in the physical. There's something about having them with you all the time, which is also really magical. Yeah.
Brian Smith 1:02:07
Well, it's great getting to see you again. It's been wonderful and enjoy the rest of your day.
Lisa Jones 1:02:13
Yeah, you too. Have a have a wonderful rest of the evening.
Brian Smith 1:02:17
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
After a transformative shared-death experience, Lisa Jones began communicating with a collective energy known as the Beings of Love and Light, BOLAL. Lisa shares this loving, calm energy, with humanity, to help them navigate the ever-changing challenges of living life on earth.
Lisa Jones is the author of the Art of Living Happy After the Loss of a Loved One, inspirational speaker, intuitive guide, and consultant for top-level performers in global business, high-profile celebrities, and individuals alike. Her life-changing meditations, podcasts, and stage shows reach and teach the powerful potential of spirit, abundance, and the key to true inner happiness.