Welcome to Grief 2 Growth
Dec. 22, 2020

Roberta Grimes- Seek Reality


Roberta Grimes had two experiences of light in childhood that prompted her to spent decades studying nearly 200 years of abundant and consistent afterlife evidence.

Eventually, she figured out what her experiences of light had been, and beyond that, she learned so many details about what happens at and after death that in 2010 she published The Fun of Dying - Find Out What Really Happens Next. Her 2014 sequel was The Fun of Staying in Touch – How Our Loved Ones Contact Us and How We Can Contact Them, after which in 2015 came Liberating Jesus. Her 2016 book, The Fun of Growing Forever – We Can’t Transform the World Until We Transform Ourselves, demonstrates how well the Gospel teachings of Jesus work to help us develop spiritually.

Then in 2017, she published The Fun of Living Together – We Must Learn to Live Together as Brothers or perish Together as Fools, which explains how we can heal our racial problems in one generation. A graduate of Smith College and Boston University School of Law, Roberta does a weekly radio program and podcast called “Seek Reality with Roberta Grimes” on WebTalkRadio.net and many other venues.

She blogs and answers questions at robertagrimes.com.

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Transcript

Brian Smith:

Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed we've been planted and having been planted, who grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is brief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith. Hey everybody, this is Brian Smith. I'm back with another episode of grief to growth. And today I've got with me my good friend Roberta Grimes. And this is this is crazy. This is full circle. Roberta is one of the first podcasts I started listening to after my daughter Shayna passed away five and a half years ago, we became friends after that. And I finally got Roberta on grief to growth. I'm going to read her introduction and then we'll just have a conversation like we always do. Roberta had two experiences of light and childhood that prompted her to spend decades studying nearly 200 years of abundant and consistent afterlife evidence. Eventually she figured out what her experiences of life have been. And beyond that, she learned so many details about what happens at an after death, that in 2010, she published the fun of dying, find out what really happens next. Her 2014 SQL was the fun of staying in touch that subtitle her loved ones contact us and how we can contact them. After which in 2015 came liberating Jesus. Her 2016 book was the fun of growing forever. We can't transform the world until we can transform ourselves. And it demonstrates how well the gospel teachings of Jesus work to help us develop spiritually. Then in 2017, she published the fun of living together we must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools, which explains how we can heal our racial problems in one generation. Roberta is a graduate of Smith College in Boston University School of Law. She does a weekly radio program and podcast called seek reality with Roberta Grimes which is what I mentioned up at the top. That's a web talk radio dotnet and many other venues. And Roberta blogs and answer questions that Roberta Grimes comm so Roberta is an extremely busy and energetic person, and want to welcome Roberta degrees to growth.

Unknown:

Hi, dear, I'm so glad to be here.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, it's it's really wild having you on as I said in the intro. I mean, we were talking before we got on it was either you or Sandra Champlain, I discovered you guys about the same time my daughter passed away in June of 2015. And I wasn't really even listening to podcasts at a time. And something prompted me to start listening to podcasts. And I found your podcasts. And it just it really helped me so much that those first several years that I got to thank you for, for doing what you do.

Roberta Grimes:

It's my joy. How much I love doing this. I hope I live to be 90, so I get to do it for a whole long time. Yeah. So I know, I always feel like when I have people like you on everybody knows your story, but not everybody does. So you did have a couple of experiences of light as you call them when you were younger. So tell me about those and how that kind of transformed into what you are now to nowadays, they're called spiritually transformative experiences. And I understand now what happened to me, but at the time, it was my ministry, I was eight years old, I really literally was only eight years old. And a good little Christian child, I woke up in the middle of one night, and I knew there was no God. And I was terrified. And in the midst of my fear, there was a bright light in the room like burning magnesium that bright and was a flash of light. It's because that's like still present in my mind. And this is a million years later. I remember what that room looked like Otherwise, I would have no memory of it. Over my right shoulder splashing in the room was the same white light. And this time it had beautiful music with it like tiny Bell solely beautiful. And the same boy said I will never leave you. Hmm. So that's what I knew. The first one had, of course happened. It wasn't, you know, a crazy child's imagination. So I spent spent the rest of my life since I was 20. Trying to understand that experience, and it's led me to here. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I didn't have that experience when I was I was a little kid Sunday school. And I wondered the same thing. But it's interesting how some of us get those experiences. And some of us don't, but I think we, we kind of get what we need to prompt us to always get what you want, but you get what you need. Right? Yeah. So you you majored in religious studies, and I think it was partly because you wanted to figure out this this thing about the light? Yeah, I think, you know, we did it, somebody is going to finally say, or I'd become close enough to some professor that I could ask the question. Mm hmm. But I never asked the question. And I never got an answer. And instead, I got that experience when I was 20. And then I knew I wasn't supposed to talk about it with other people. So I didn't. Yeah, not until I was in my 40s. Did I ever mention it anyone? So you would, just because my mother had a similar experience when my father was dying, they knew other people can have that experience do I didn't know about that. Tell me about that.

Unknown:

Um, these are not always poetic experiences, but they're profound for the person. When my father was dying. My mother was in her 70s. So he was 14 years older, and she was staying up with them and, and all kinds of things. And she went back to she put someone else was with him while he was dying. And she went back to her bedroom to sleep a little bit, sat down in her bed, and you know, was reading a book. And she had a same thing happened, bright experience. And a voice said, I'm giving you a few more days with him. So you can get a few things straight. Huh? That's not poetic, right? What does it mean? I mean, it's nothing. But the key thing is she didn't know about my experience. And what I was driving, I would drive almost two hours, each way to be with Him every day while this was happening, and because I had family at home, and I called her and said, Hi, mom is How's he doing? We knew he was dying. And she said, Oh, I can't tell you something wonderful happened. I can't tell you. I can't tell you. So I said, you saw a light Didn't you know that? And then I said and some voices. So when I got to her kitchen, I told her what had happened to me first time. And the same thing had happened to her. It's it's a boy a light, and a voice out of the light. And that's Wait, that's it's pretty profound, though. She totally lost her mind before she died. She died in her 90s. And she would she could no longer recognize her children. She still remembered that experience.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, that's that's amazing. Wow. So you, you went to law school, you became a lawyer? And I know you realize it raises religious background. So what point did you start to integrate these experiences you had with with your religion, art start seeking what you started seeking?

Unknown:

I didn't, I kept them completely separate. Because I, it didn't seem to be religious. When it happened to me, it seemed to be more like what happens in your life, you know, you don't think of everything going to the dentist isn't religious. But I was more and more the research I was doing is I'm doing a tremendous amount of research right from my 20s on, more and more of the research was bumping up against my religion. And I was very serious about my religion, right? Because I have read the Bible through I tell people six times, probably it's closer to seven or 810 12 times, because I started doing it when I was 12. And I did it every year, over and over again until I was early 50s. So that's a lot of times to read the Bible. Mm hmm. And I suppose read familiar with the Bible. And I was very, because I had majored in early Christian history. I was very familiar with the history of Christianity. I kept expecting the moment the magical moment when the what they say about what happens at injector death would converge right? You're right, because I believe them both. And then there came a moment in my early 50s. When I had to give it up. I realized the dead keep telling us. There's no religion in the afterlife. The death of Jesus on the cross has never made a bit of difference for a single human being. And that's clear. Oh, I mean, I hear I was learning how very important Jesus is much more important, I think, than people realize. And learning it from people who are dead. I mean, the dead know what's going on more than we do. And at the same time, I was learning that my religion was wrong. And so I became I had a real crisis of faith. I closed my Bible stop reading it. I stopped doing doing afterlife research. I was a Catholic by them because I never had married a Catholic. And I didn't do anything with it for two years. I literally, because I didn't I knew there was no hell. But can you go to hell for discovering that? There is no hell? Yeah, I mean, this is this is a horrible problem for someone who sincerely believe that stuff. Yeah. But, but two years later, there was a rainy day, and I was trying to get my courage up. And I finally did. And I opened my Bible. I was very familiar with the Gospels. I'd read them so many times. And I kept thinking of Jesus said some of this stuff. I think it's near what he said, but I couldn't bear to have him be wrong. I couldn't bear to find anything he had screwed up. Yeah, or, you know, I was screwing up that he had said differently. Mm hmm. And I discovered it was the greatest day of my life, I discovered that Jesus actually knows, knew 2000 years ago, all the stuff that we could not have possibly confirmed until at least the early 20th century, little things and big things, all kinds of things. He had been there, he really knew I can prove you Jesus is real. So I thought that was pretty exciting. And that, but that's when I realized I had to choose either Jesus, or Christianity. I could not choose both. Yeah, so I chose Jesus.

Brian Smith:

That and that is a hard and scary thing. I know what you went through. Because I went through a similar thing. I was probably in my 30s or 40s. And my grandfather was a pastor, I was raised in the church.

Unknown:

Worse,

Brian Smith:

and you know, in the Sunday school indoctrination and all that stuff, I actually kind of stepped out of it, I first found something called Christian universalism. And I studied that. And it basically said that there is that no one is eternally Damn, there is no hell that Jesus actually saves everyone. And then you get people saying, well, you're going to hell because you don't believe in hell anymore. And you're telling people, there's no hell, so therefore, you're going to go to hell. Or they'll say to you, well, if you just studied a little bit more, I have a really good friend who's still an evangelical and say, Brian, just read the Bible, but more and pray and ask God to open up your eyes. And I'm like, I've been doing this for 50 years. So I know what you mean, when you say, you know, you get to the point where it just doesn't make any sense anymore.

Unknown:

And the deeper you go in the gospels, the more you find that Jesus did have a reason a, the more you find Jesus is divine. He came from the highest aspect of the Godhead, there isn't even bigger than God's son, he is God Himself. God walked the earth 2000 years ago in the person of Jesus, to observe us and to teach us. And if you actually sit down and uncritically read the Gospels, apart from the rest of the Bible, you find out why he came, and what he taught, and all of that it's all still there. And that's a miracle by itself, because a lot of what he said is not palatable for Christians to know. And so they just ignore it. I mean, if you if you're a Christian, you go to church, they read the parts that they agree with, and they ignore the rest. But if you honestly read the whole thing, and oh, and what's even worse is, of course, that the Council of Nicea and each other first first millennium Council's change the Gospels, fortunately, they didn't change them a lot. But that's how much they respected Jesus. They removed every reference that could find to reincarnation and even said they did that they thought it was right for there to be more than one life. They wanted people to really try hard on this one life. But we're going to say that and and they also added some things, they added things about church building, Jesus never built a church or talked about it. They added things about end times, and Armageddon. All of that he didn't say, sheep and goats and people or dance or not, that's Calvinism. That's way after Jesus, a whole bunch of things they added, but it's easy when you understand what he did say, and you define the consistencies and pull them out. So it's not that hard to to create a gospel, which is probably very close to what he actually said.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, and I love what you said there. And it was interesting because so many people that do religious studies, so many people that go to seminary, etc, actually end up becoming atheist. They, they they will sit, they'll stand in the pulpit and preach every week, but they don't believe a word that they're saying. Because they realize what they're saying doesn't make any sense.

Unknown:

No, that's the problem. No human made God makes sense. There have been a lot of human made Gods it's, it's a fundamental human need to have a god and probably because otherwise, you know, we're alone in at least if there's a God, even if the gods angry, at least there's a way to kind of make make your peace with reality. For example, I'll contrast to Gods that I've just been writing about. This week, Mohawk, which was the Canaanite God, the great Canaanite God that they were fighting, the Jews are fighting as they came into the area of Jerusalem. That God had horn hardcore cow horns on his head, big horns, and a fire in his belly, and they fed him their babies. That's how they made peace with that God. Now you're I think that's ridiculous right on its face. But the crowd of people didn't think it was ridiculous. They thought it was a way to appease what they otherwise could not even begin to understand nevermind herpes. But there isn't that much difference between Mohawk and the God of the Christians when you think about it. Because a man you know, we say God, still love and all this stuff. But Christians actually believe that their god enjoys watching his child be horribly murdered. Because otherwise he won't forgive us. For our human failings. He won't forgive us, even for me for being descended from. You know, Adam. Yeah, yeah. Think about that. All right, you've got six children. They're all babies right now. And they're all messing up the living room, and you are really angry. So you try to ask yourself which of those six babies that I love more than life, but I most enjoy watch being horribly murdered? So I can forgive the rest? Yeah. If that made sense to people who still didn't know much of anything 2000 years ago, 1500 years ago, 1000 years ago? It makes no sense now, right? Because if that is what God is really like, then God is not loving. Jesus says, we have to forgive no matter what, 1000 times it doesn't matter. And yet God can't even forgive us for our the fact that we're fallible.

Brian Smith:

Yeah. For being what we were made to be. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Unknown:

It makes no sense. And that's why your friends are falling away from the religion because people are more sophisticated now than we've ever been in human history. And less and less and less of the other religions. All of them. Make sense.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, you know, and it's, it's interesting, because when we start to figure those things out, and some of us did, even as a small child, like, why would God punish Jesus like, and frankly, I hated guy when I was a kid, I feared God, literally. But I love Jesus. I love Jesus, because Jesus at least came between me and this guy that wanted to kill me just for being born.

Unknown:

Yes, yeah. The thing is, with popularity contests in the world, Jesus is always number one or number two. Mm hmm. Plus, everybody loves Jesus. And they should,

Brian Smith:

yes, yes,

Unknown:

Jesus was God on earth, Jesus came to help us escape from the fears that all religions are based in fear, because they're all made by people. And they're made by people who are trying to control other people, and how do you control people with fear? I mean, people aren't going to get out of bed and go and sit in the pews and put money in the plate. Unless they're scared, why else would they do it?

Brian Smith:

Right? Right.

Unknown:

And into every religion is based in fear. And the problem with that is that it's impossible to grow spiritually while you're afraid. So Christianity, as it is practiced, actually makes it much harder for us to grow spiritually. And we come here to grow spiritually. So what's the point of that?

Brian Smith:

Yeah, I agree with you. And as I as we're having this conversation, I'm thinking about someone who just had a major loss in their life, loss of a child, and this person is Christian. They're just really, you know, and we, and we suffer to think about, and I saw a guy wrote a book once. Basically, we compare Christianity to a cult. And I hesitate to say that, but it's true because one of the things a cult does is it indoctrinate you against anybody outside and tells you, they're going to come and tell you this. And when they do, it's a lie. And if you fall away, then you are you're condemned, you're out. So it doesn't allow us to explore. And it doesn't allow us to really to. So when we get to the point like you and I did with this crisis of faith, we're scared. We're like stepping off of a cliff.

Unknown:

It was a terrible experience. But what I found was, if you say, okay, Jesus, I'm following you, and I'm not gonna follow anyone else. Please show me. What I did was really I gave my life eventually gave my life to Jesus. Mm hmm. And I did it with a with an affirmation, prayer. Gratitude affirmation. Prayer is the highest, most powerful kind. I just said, Thank you for getting the work to do. Thank you for showing me how to do it. And every day, for the past, what 12 or 15 years I have prayed that prayer usually a couple times a day. Mm hmm. That's all you really have to do. I'm here use me and got and decisis never said, you're doing the wrong thing. You know, when when the point of dying was about to be published, this was in 2007 or 2010. I went through another crisis there because it really is pretty blunt about a lot of things. And what's true and what's not true. And so I got down on my knees, believe it or not, Brian, you think I'm going to go crazy? I got genuine news one day that summer, actually, that was just for went to bed. And I said, I doing what I'm trying to do what you want me to do. If there's anything in that book that you don't want to have see daylight, I told my publisher that if I die this week, this month before it goes, comes out in the fall, don't publish it. And And please, take me rather than letting me do something wrong. And I meant it with all my heart. And I woke up the next morning, I was sort of a little surprised. Yeah. And I got all this wonderful affirmation, I got all kinds of things. I, okay, this is what this is what God wants me to do. We'll see where it goes. But I'll, I'll take it this far. Another thing. The point of dying is kind of an unusual name. I wanted to call it dying for idiots. Because I knew dying for dummies would be taken. And so and my publisher said, No, you need a different name. That's not a good name. So I went to bed one night, and I first you know, said, okay, God, if you want to, if you if you have a title in mind, will you please give it to me? And I woke up with three titles, the fun of dying, the fun of staying in touch and the fun of growing forever. I thought, well, that's better than dying for idiots. And sort of my sure, but I didn't know what the other two were about. I think you're staying staying in touch would be about songs. And it was, but I didn't start writing it for several years, I think know what growing forever was about. But then, as I began to realize the whole point of this is learning how you grow spiritually. And that Jesus gave us the easiest method for rapid spiritual growth that we have growing forever to.

Brian Smith:

Yeah,

Unknown:

I didn't pick up the idols. Yeah, that gives you the title. Pretty sure he probably wants you to write the book.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, you probably want to go with this. And I gotta say, I've known you now for several years. And I love your sincerity. I love the way you're just you're frank with stuff as you said, you know, there are some things in the book, they're gonna, they're gonna offend some people, but people need to be kind of woken up. And we're in good company, because Jesus offended a lot of people. So I tell people, when we say you're offending people, I'm like, good, because that's the guy that I'm following.

Unknown:

Yes, yes. So the books are ever Yes.

Brian Smith:

And I love that like, because you talk about and you it is simple, but it's not easy. You talk about how you gave your life to God, and you're very sincere about that. You're like that you said, You woke up, you wake up every day, what can I do? that's giving your life to God? It's not, it's not saying the sinners prayer. It's not, you know, it's that stuff. It's what we actually do, right?

Unknown:

Jesus told us that there's no such thing is sin. But he had to, you have to understand in order for him to read the Gospels, people have to understand that he could not speak against the prevailing religion at all, because there was a death sentence if you did. So he couldn't say what he was really trying to say what he had to say, in order to do to complete his mission. He couldn't say those things. So he did it really clever ways. People talk about his parables, he would he would tell a story and it had a deeper meaning. And then he would say here He who has ears to hear let him hear exactly wink, wink, right. And people would look for the deeper meaning he if he had something big to say such as God doesn't judge you. Well, you can't say that. But what you can do is frame it. And what he did was one day he said, God doesn't judge you. But he has given all judgment to the sun. Me. So all will under the sun as they honor the Father. Okay. The temple guards let that go by because Okay, somebody still are judged, right? Then at a different day, same followers, different temple guards, he said, and as for me, I don't judge those who don't follow me. Because I didn't come to judge the world. I came to save the world of Christians go I said, save. Yeah, but not not from God. He came to save the world from religions. That's all through the Gospels that that's what he was doing. He was speaking against religions. But he couldn't say those words exactly. But he did say seek and you will find knock and the door will be open to you. He's inviting us to ask a question on a personal level. He told us that, you know, don't pray. Public go into your inner room and talk to God in secret and the God who sees in secret will hear you. That's the relationship he was trying to establish with God for us. Oh, by the way, he also obscurely said that you are your own afterlife judge. Because the third in that trilogy of statements about forgiveness. The third thing he said was, you know, forgive and you'll be forgiven. And that's exactly what happens when after our we are the only judge after our, our deaths. And we are the toughest judge, you can imagine because we know what we meant to do, and we know how we screwed up. So don't think it'll be easier. It's a lot harder. Have yourself be the judge, but knowing that is, you know, you're forewarned and forearmed.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, exactly. And that one of the things I really love about your your books, you know, again, especially for people that are stuck in Christianity, and they're looking for something else, but they still really love Jesus. Because if you said, I think everybody does, it's funny, I talked to atheists who love Jesus, I and I, I talked to that guy the other day, who was a Hindu, and he's like, I love Jesus, Jesus is great. Everybody thinks Jesus is great. And your books really revered Jesus, and really, you know, put Jesus, you know, I think where he should be as our role model as our big brother, as somebody that we can we can follow. Not as someone who was here to save us from this angry guy who, you know, decided to send Jesus to die instead of us.

Unknown:

No, no, that's right. And I have been a Protestant, I have been a Catholic. I have studied, you know, I studied religion in college Christianity, basically. So I know from the religion and I know from what it teaches, it's not it's very comfortable and familiar to me. And I can tell you, Christians do not follow Jesus. Jesus was very specific, in telling us that, that he would, he said, If you hold to my teachings, you are really my disciples, and then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Exactly right. But they don't listen to his teachings at all. So we are really he said, We are really his disciples, because we're so carefully trying to live the way Jesus wants us to live. And oh, yeah, I revered and but they don't revere Jesus. I mean, to just, I stopped going to, to Catholic mass with my husband. When one day that beautiful new church, they built a new church, but it had over the altar. A bigger than life size, plaster Jesus bleeding nailed to a cross. Yeah. And I couldn't be in the room at that I found I couldn't, it was so horrifying. And then why did they do that? They do that be so you'll feel very guilty and always show up in church. It's a it's a fear thing. It's a fear thing everyone it is. And fear is not love. You cannot love what you fear. So you have no idea what kind of a relationship you could have with Jesus, when the fear is gone.

Brian Smith:

Yeah. And so many people don't realize that they're not following Jesus, they would push back on that. So of course, I'm following Jesus, I go to church every Sunday. And they tell me to do this because I'm following Jesus and they don't they don't understand even even our Bibles, unfortunately, have been corrupted. They've been these things have been taken out things have been put in. You know, we have people still today they're scared to talk to mediums because they say their Bible tells them not to. They say I can't believe in reincarnation, because it does not know. So say more about that.

Unknown:

Which isn't there isn't the there in the Old Testament, there's a lot of consulting of work calls, mediums. And back then, it was a lot of people didn't want other one gets a trophy thing, if you if you're coming to my church, every weekend, you both talked to a medium in the medium says, Oh, your grandpa proves he's talking to grandma and your grandpa says, Don't go to that church, because it's not true. You're not gonna go there anymore. And there's not there's less money in the tail. So of course, they would tell you not to, but in one, john four, colon one. JOHN says, try the spirits to see if they're of God, because many false spirits have gone out in the world. Everybody who was worth his salt or herself as a medium, always make sure that they're talking to, you know, people's dead relatives, rather than to some, you know, demon or going around in the world because there are a lot a lot of bad beings that have they're not embodied but have not fully transitioned. But they know the Bible is not going to tell you to try the spirit. But if you're not supposed to be talking to the spirits, or is it I mean, it doesn't make sense to me.

Brian Smith:

It doesn't and you know, it's interesting, as You were saying that because one of the things we learn, we learn for people that speak to us from the afterlife, I haven't heard a single instance where they said you need to go to this particular church. And in fact, they tell us there is no religion stop worrying about it. Yeah. But yes, the churches the that's there and and, you know, we go because we go because of fear and guilt and tradition. And when we start to think for ourselves, we realize we don't need them anymore.

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Unknown:

That's right. And one of the problems with the Bible is that they treat the whole thing equally. Now I've read it, you know a million times you can't. The Old Testament is very distancing. Even though even the beautiful parts they you feel far from it, you get you hit Matthew, and suddenly you're in the presence of a 21st century man, it's a it's an amazing difference to get to Jesus, then you get past john and you get into act. And suddenly you're in the ancient past. Again, Jesus is universal. And he is he has is without time. He is speaking to us as a modern man all the time. And when you when you wish it all together, which is what Christians do, and you allow Old Testament stuff and New Testament and we they say inspired Word of God. Well, they you know where that comes from? It comes from the fact that the counselors advocate to counselors, Nic and 325 said we're inspired by God, you know, that'll bet plus $1 might buy you half a sandwich. It's useless. Yeah. And it's Jesus tells us actually, that you can go ahead and get a pair of scissors and go to work on your Bible. He tells us what someone has to ask him what was the greatest commandment, he didn't give any of the 10 He said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your mind. And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. You hear that in churches all over the place. You don't hear the next line though. The next line is in that consists all the law and the prophets. Now the law of the prophets was what they called our entire Old Testament. Right? So if if this sums up the Old Testament, then get your scissors out and cut away the Old Testament. Parts of the Old Testament I love Yeah, but I'm telling you it's not God outmoded the Old Testament 2000 years ago, basically he said, Love that's all you have to do love and forgive. You have to forgive in order to love the it's very simple. Yeah. And everything that comes after Jesus after john, in the in the Bible is you know, Paul's letters and some records of the early church. It's not God's word. Because it's cultural. It's based in that culture. We are not part of that culture. It is not God's word. Yeah, there are parts of Paul, by the way that that were channeled, actually. I mean, you know, we all love First Corinthians 13. Yeah. That was written by spirit. It wasn't written. And you can easily tell that just read what's before it. And what's after it. You can see there's suddenly God is speaking there. Yeah, there are parts of the Bible that were channeled that way but to allow them to modify the sacred word of God on earth is just a travesty. But people do it. Yeah, they do in their church.

Brian Smith:

And we were taught in church that the Bible is the perfect when people think of the Bible, it's that it's those thin pieces of paper between the leather binder, right and it was, that's the way it was delivered. And they don't realize it was delivered over 1000s of years, through hundreds of authors. Some of it inspired some of it right not inspired, some of it, some of it poetry, some of it not meant to be taken literally and what we really do is we destroy it when we take it literally. There's actually a lot of beauty in the Hebrew scriptures of the Old Testament as people Call it

Unknown:

there's a lot of beauty during to speak against our people who, who are religious Jews and more power to them, I can tell you the truth I love, I love their religion. But it's not. It shouldn't be. It's different from the teachings of Jesus it is Jesus came to give us specific information and bring us to the next stage of human development. And it's been delayed for 2000 years because it got turned into a religion has nothing to do with anything he said. Yeah, so strange. Why do people believe it when he didn't take any of it?

Brian Smith:

So let's talk about I know your your books were channeled and and you say you can't you have heard you say you can't really write that your books, your channel. But there was something. But there's something different about liberating Jesus the So tell us about the story of how that book came about?

Unknown:

Well, well, I have a got a guide that I've come to know very well. I didn't know him, though, until he had to come out in 2015. And tell him tell me that I had been defying it. No, but just give people basic information. We meet with our guides while our bodies sleep, or we don't or minds don't need to sleep. So very often on many nights, you're meeting with your guides, and you're asking them questions, they're giving you direction. They're you know, maybe you when they're working on fixing your your life plan. The light goes on at night while your body sleeps. And but what he was trying to do preparing to close to a year before he finally came out in February of 2015, and beat me to the head. He was trying to get me to write liberating Jesus. And I was saying, No way, Jose, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna presume to do such a thing. I'm not worthy of that. And so he one day, I got it into my mind. My mother probably wants to talk to me. I wasn't her it was it was my God. I made an appointment with a medium. I met with the medium. And I had wonderful actually, she's an excellent medium. I had a wonderful meeting with my family and my mother and my father. Everybody was there. It was just play time. I thought, Oh, this is great. Yeah, did about 1520 minutes before the end of the hour. My the medium said, Oh, your guides are here. They want to talk to you. I said, I was having so much fun. And so I met my guides, I actually had 11 at the time, it varies with how many we have, depending on what we're I mean, if I suddenly decide to play the piano, I'm going to get a piano guide for a while to help me get started. Anything you anything you take that into your head to do that is positive, you'll get a guide for it. But I met those guides. And then she said, Oh, and now your master guide steps forward and he stepped forward. And he said you may call me Thomas. And I knew who it was. And I was a groupie for about two years after this. It was Thomas Jefferson. Mm hmm. Um, you know, I was completely totally unworthy of that. But I learned over it because he met with me a couple of times. I learned that actually we've had 17 lifetimes together. I've always been a man, we don't have anything like a female Rowlett male or relationship at all. Instead, I've always been like his sidekick is, you know, the, the junior to him. And apparently, I agreed with him right after he did one more art incarnation after Jefferson, and apparently agreed with him then to if he wanted, because he had some things he wanted to finish during that lifetime. I agreed I do it. I mean, what the heck. I'm used to used to who he was now, and I don't think been that way at all. But it took me a long time. Yeah, I was starstruck as you can imagine. And he was frustrated by that. He doesn't at all and identify as Thomas Jefferson. Now he identifies as who he, you know, is that eternal? Name? Mm hmm. But that's why I that's why I wrote the book about how to solve our racial problems. That's it, that was his thing. And he when he was here, totally his thing. I mean, I got very fascinated by it and wish I had another lifetime. I would be working on that full time I tell him, but because it needs to be fixed, but But anyway, he when he was here, many people have heard of the Jefferson Bible. He was doing this kind of work himself only. He did it mainly in his old age. And he wrote it his version of liberating Jesus, apparently, but he didn't. He felt it wasn't right for now. And he then he felt he couldn't have it published because of you know, he was famous for having done something else altogether. So I had agreed with I would do to do three things. Apparently. I I had, I would help him because he chose that lifetime specifically. So he could, you know, end slavery and I would work with him on finishing that I would work with him on putting out the truth about Jesus. And I would try to help the country which he thinks is in sorry, shape right now, of course, because they're not following anything his generation did. So that's doing but I didn't know for a while, but that was, you know, really why I'd have had all the interest I've had. Yeah. But anyway, he told me I had to write liberating Jesus. So I said, Okay. He told me why, if we don't fix the world, spiritually raise its vibration fairly quickly, within 200 years. He told me that the Christians bring on Armageddon on their own to bring back Jesus. I thought that was crazy. But now I no longer think it's quite so crazy. But anyway, he's trying to rent that he's trying to raise our vibration rapidly enough. So anyway, I came is like, this gets weirder. I came in with that as my one of the things I was going to do, although I didn't know it at the time, and he was preparing you. That's why he had me doing all this research on the afterlife and stuff. And then, I don't know if you have you looked at A Course in Miracles, have you studied it? Okay, that was channeled by a group that Jesus had headed. He was unhappy that we were ignoring his Gospels. And he thought if he gave it give us the same information, very advanced, we'd be more interested. Well, it turns out, it was too advanced for us, you can't even do A Course in Miracles really well, without a study group. It's hard. So so he figured, okay, I ain't too low. This is I'm talking, I'm paraphrasing what I was told Jesus decided, I aim too low The first time I may, I'm aiming too high. The second time we're going to do it just right in the way we're going to do it is we're going to take the original gospels, which everybody knows is art for me. And we're just going to fix them because they have been distorted over the years. Just those gospels, no other gospels, many of which are real. Nothing else. And that's what liberating Jesus is. They, I and so Thomas told me, okay, we're gonna start writing the book. And I said, yay. And so we started writing the book. And he enjoyed it just the way we always do it. He gives me the table of contents, contents, which never varies after he's given it to me. And we started writing, and we got through the first part of the book, and I was flowing, I was really having fun, and I thought it was going to be great. Then I got a call from my friend, the medium who had originally, you know, helped me get in contact with, with Thomas. And he said, Thomas just seized me in a Walmart parking lot, and actually became part of my body he basically occupied briefly, he told me this, he said, we want to warn you that the you are about to work with the master directly. And with the rest of it. Please let it Oh, please, look, please let us know. If it overwhelms the physical, we have reduced his energies substantially. But we want to make sure that you're okay. Something like that. I said, What does that mean? She said, Well, we don't know. So I woke up the next morning, and for two weeks, I had a very different presence in my mind all the time. Hmm. If anyone tells you Jesus is a wimp, he's wrong. Yeah, he just, he just had me. He used to be like a word processor, Thomas. Thomas. I feel like I'm really doing it. He's just making me feel smart. But literally, my fingers were moving so fast. I didn't know what I had written until after the two weeks were over. Wow. I mean, I a little. And if he thought a word was wrong, he would keep he would make me look at that spot. And I would look at it No, explain to me, go back up, make me look. And eventually I'd say, Oh, I know what this problem. This is what he wants. As soon as I made the change, we'd go on. I was a word processor for two weeks.

Brian Smith:

Wow. Yeah, that's really,

Unknown:

wow, I was praying, I was thinking, well, what's going on? I really should pay attention to this experience, because it's extraordinary. Mm hmm. But you don't at the time, you're too immersed in it to really step back and look at it. Yeah. And then he started, I started hearing his thoughts in my mind. And he really is very disgusted with the way with the way Christianity is treating him. Yes.

Brian Smith:

I would imagine. Yeah, I would imagine. It's interesting. You talk about Thomas Jefferson, because I have a connection to Thomas Jefferson. Yeah, I'm part of the Hemings family. So if you know that Sally Hemings story,

Unknown:

he was not her lover. Believe it or not. It was random. No,

Brian Smith:

no. Okay, so, so yeah, it's really it's, you know, it's really interesting and when I hear you talking about you know, you can take your Bible and cut it up with scissors. That's literally what Thomas Jefferson did. So people might when you made the reference to the Jefferson Bible, he says, you know, he separated the diamonds from the dung is the way he put it. It's like, you know, there's there's

Unknown:

a word that Jesus stick out in the Bible like diamonds in a dunghill. And he was a farmer, he would know from Dunhill.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, yeah, so it's, you know, that that connection and and, and I gotta say, I've read all your books. And and the libertarian, Jesus is just a fantastic book. And I really recommend to people who are in Christianity, who really want to get to know Jesus better, and really want to, to feel, to explore, to do that. And, you know, he talks about a Course of Miracles, I interviewed Robert Perry, who is, I think, probably the foremost expert on the Course of Miracles. And one of the things when we were talking, there's so many parallels to the near death experience. And in the course, I realized I knew most of the stuff in there because I've been studying near death experiences. And I know you've studied them a lot, too.

Unknown:

Yes, dear, death experiences are extraordinary, spiritually transformative experiences, but they everybody knew that they were not deaf. In fact, Raymond Moody, who has been on seek reality, said, of course, I don't have anything to do with dead. That's why I called them near death, you know, die in a near death experience. But people recently have forgotten that because they are so extraordinary. But a near death experiences is a usually trauma induced injection from the body. So you're, you're doing astral travel. And they often those all those experiences happen in the astral plane, which is gigantic, it's like much bigger than the universe. But they don't happen where the dead go. And one of the ways there are many will the date did tell us they don't happen where the dead go. They also are very a typical, they're always tailored to the person who's having them more than they are tailored to what actually happens at death. But all of that being said, I think they're wonderful experiences for the people who have them. And when they share the experience, if it's positive, there's a lot of negative stuff that happens in your death experiences. And when people I mean, there's you can find on the internet, on YouTube, people who say, oh, if you don't do this, you don't do that. You're going to hell, I was told that in my near death experience. There's no such thing. It doesn't happen. So that's why I tell people don't think it's real. What's happening in your death experience. Think of it as a wonderful communication from the guides of the person who had the experience, and then you can really learn a lot from your death experiences.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, that's a really interesting, interesting perspective. I've always kind of thought of it as maybe they were going to like a halfway point or something. And that might be another way of putting it. Yeah, it's kind of a halfway point. astral plane. Because usually a lot not usually, but a lot of times new experiences, they'll experience some sort of a barrier, like a river or a wall. Excellent point. Yeah, there's some sort of barrier that they can't cross. So it is, my impression has always been, and it's highly tailored, I believe it is it's kind of like, I think it's kind of a wake up call for Bobby was like, we want to get we want to get you back on track. So yes, yeah.

Unknown:

But knowing that they that they don't happen, where the dead go, makes it much easier for people to understand what actually happens at death, which is really pretty consistent across cultures. And across. You know, among people inside a culture, it's very, very consistent. And it doesn't involve we never see God, there is no such thing as a physical God. We are we are loved and nurtured and cared for and supported the whole time because you are when you first leave your body at death you are about as clueless as you were when you first met left her mother's body you don't know what's going on. Yeah, and, and but they're so your loved ones come for you, and they help you, you know, get ready and go and get you out of there as soon as possible. Because one thing that can happen is that you can get stuck. You have raised your your personal energy vibration substantially after leaving your body. But then there's your mother crying at your bedside or some you know, somebody you really love and you want to make them know, you're okay, look at me, I couldn't be better. And if you love if you do that, you will lower your vibration and be able to see that people came to rescue you. So a lot of ghosts are made that way. And you can prevent being a ghost by getting the heck out of there immediately. Because once you are fully transitioned in a climate, you can give your mother all kinds of signs that you're fine. You just can't. They can't see you when you just have gotten out of your body.

Brian Smith:

Mm hmm. Yeah, that's an interesting point. Thank you. That's a really interesting perspective. So I wanted to talk to you about your racial reconciliation work. And one of the things I was going to ask you is how did you get into that? But I guess it was kind of this. Thomas Jefferson says, You said he had an in between life. Was he an abolitionist? And then in between life or

Unknown:

Nope. Okay. If he said that he he, he was he. I know this is hard to believe. He was very disappointed at first in his Jefferson lifetime. He said I had too much power. I didn't always use it. Well, he was in his early adulthood, an ardent abolitionist. And that changed and you know what changed? it? Don't, you wouldn't, because it was the death of his wife. His wife was the daughter of someone who imported slaves. Hmm, her treasured stepmother was his mistress who had six half siblings for her. And she, she just she Patti was he destroyed everything that Patti wrote, he destroyed all their letters, he destroyed everything. To find Patty, you have to look at the changes her death brought, and what he wrote before her death and what he wrote after her death. And what he wrote before her death, was driven by the notion that this is something he cannot even bear to be around the whole notion that people are own this way. And he would have it was illegal for most of his life to free slaves in Virginia. But, but nevertheless, what he tried to do was give them the best life he could. And it's strange now to think of it but he wouldn't allow them ever to be hit or beaten in any way. He He gave them Saturdays and Sundays off. And they worked Saturdays only in the peak season. He, they all had, you know, homes, real homes that were theirs, that they and they had a garden that went with it. And they grew vegetables and grew chickens, and they grew eggs. And he didn't grow those things. So he there is there exists at one a cello and account book. In that account, he kept careful records of which of his servants had sold their produce to the main house. And he always owed the money, but he did pay them back. And so that's very different from you know, it's crappy. But it's a different level of crappy. And he he, he gradually came to see that, in order to make this happen, he was going to have to change the people around him who were so invested in this in the system. And he started out to do that I believe Patti died 1982 8017 82. I believe if she had lived, he would not have become president, he instead would have completed an abolition long before the Civil War. I believe that because that's how strong he felt about it. Interesting. And that's how strongly he still feels now. I mean, look what he made me do do all this research. But he's right. He's absolutely right. Do you know what the reason is, we still have racial problems. What is it? We never emancipated the slaves. Never. We think all that was necessary was to and this is from directly from Thomas, we think all that was necessary, was to abolish slavery. And we did that, of course, but that there's a period below the age of six, when we are learning our position in life, we're learning a lot of things we learn waters, hot or cold, we learn, you know, and learn what our position is what our rank is in life. And so, so, slaves who were born and brought up in slave cabins learned that that's their status. And you can't later in life, just say, okay, go free, because they still have that in their heads. Yeah. And, and one by one, gradually, over the generations, so many have descendants of slavery have freed themselves, but they shouldn't have had to do that. It should have been something done for them in, in the during their, quote, restoration period. But instead, what they did was just start a second stage of slavery, right? The we all know it is the Jim Crow, period. If you study it as I have, it breaks your heart. It was slavery without an owner. That's what it was. Yeah. Otherwise, it was completely slavery. People could go north, they were treated better in the north. somewhere. That's a big thing. Even even if you're free to go It's very, because remember, they were still in the mindset of being in you know, slaves and fury or whatever.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, that's it. You know, it's it's really interesting how this Congress is divided. The workshop called overcoming racism that I've been teaching. It's about, it's about three hours long. And it goes over a lot of the points you're talking about. And I think you made a really, really important point that if we, if we treat people differently, especially in his formative years, it develops a mindset, then all of our personalities are pretty much formed by the time we're six years old. So that develops that mindset that makes it very, very difficult to break out of, and to this day, we are, we are 200 plus years after slavery 250 years after slavery. But there's we still have never made up for that time and people that are Africans,

Unknown:

third stage now we are right now in the third stage of American slavery. Hmm,

Brian Smith:

okay. So tell me more about that.

Unknown:

And this was deliberate, unconfident. President Johnson was not a model abolitionist, I think maybe I can say that he was a Texan and he was in his youth at rabidly racist. Yes. And what he decided to do, because he, you know, the greatest American of the 20th century was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He, he was an implacable force. They couldn't prevent what he was going to do. Because there was, well, you, I remember the day he died, you're too young to remember it. But let me tell you, he was the greatest American of the 20th century. So in order to keep because there was no way to keep them from ending the Jim Crow restrictions. Instead, they decided that they would tell the fathers and husbands who had brought remember now, they brought their families for slavery, they brought their families through Jim Crow, and in the percentage of intact black and white families was almost the same, right up until the war on poverty, because what the War on Poverty did was to say, and I know what they thought they were saying, I'm not saying they're all evil people, but some of them were quite, quite evil. Yeah, they said to these men who had all their lives been kept down, and still taking care of their families and their wives and children said to them, if you don't go away, we are going to make sure your family doesn't do well. But if you go away, we'll take care of your family for you. That's the deal they all took. And they would not freemen would die, they would fight to the death before they get driven out of their own families, especially after all they've been through. But these men were slaves still in their minds. And they're

Brian Smith:

interesting.

Unknown:

So now, if you look around, you know, they're the black families all broken up. And yet there are, culturally in their history. There are no people more family oriented, than the people who came through slavery and Jim Crow. That's, that's what they had. That's what they have. And yet, the kids grew up without a father, you know that after they're weaned children actually, often need a father more than they need a mother.

Brian Smith:

I did a study that said that, yeah, I know that fatherhood is very, very important. And it does concern me also the fact that so many, and that there's a cycle that goes on with people growing up without fathers in the home, which leads to no more crime, which leads to them going to prison, which leads to their children growing up without fathers and I've studied

Unknown:

it, I have studied the whole thing, the school to prison pipeline. It is it literally all traces back to the war on poverty. Yeah. And, and and then to to Nixon, Nixon was fighting both the anti war people and the civil rights movement. So the way he did it was was by trying to criminalize as many black men as possible. Yes, that's when it started. Right. Right. And the right now the they are not talking at all about what they should talk about with regard to black men and prison. It is it is a tragedy is a there are there are prisons with three generations of, of black men there forever. Yeah, and it's not that they're criminal. They're not it's not that they're any different. You know, that people with my shade of skin are actually East Africans. Do you know that?

Brian Smith:

I did not know that. No, no.

Unknown:

East Africans went north, you know, 15 100,000 years ago, but there was an ice sheet covering Europe so they sort of had to cool their jets there for a while. Some one person one one person East African had a genetic genetic mutation so that his brown eyes were became were blue. First guy with blue eyes. One guy, huh? But everyone back 50 100,000 years ago thought that was really sexy. So blue eyes spread rapidly in this population, the average European because after all, Think about 10,000 years ago, it was pretty easy to get into Europe. So that's when they mainly populated Europe, but they were still they were what they were was East Africans with dark skin, and many of them had blue eyes. They were finding skeletons now and able to sequence the, the genetic material. Amazing. That's what they come up with over and over again. Well, what happened was about 3000 BC, roughly, there were horsemen who came in from the Ukrainian steppe. And those horsemen had brought two mutations, that allowed for people to get rid of the melanin in their skin. And of course, that part North they needed to make vitamin D. So that became a very successful mutation. And within, you know, 1000 1500 years, the Europeans had lost the melanin in their skin, but there are still East Africans, her husband enough time with passed.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting, because,

Unknown:

I mean, for Pete's sake,

Brian Smith:

we're all the same race. There's, there's one

Unknown:

out there with the same race where even it's even closer than that.

Brian Smith:

Yeah, the whole life, stupid. The whole idea of race came about and you know, it really the whole white black thing came about in America in the 60s in the late 1600s, when they had to find a reason why we're going to enslave these people. So we have to make them less than being human. That's right. So and you know, it's interesting, because I people are probably wondering, well, how does this tie back into the whole afterlife thing of spirituality, it's really fascinating to me, how we seem to continue these threads in reincarnation, Thomas Jefferson, you live in these multiple lives together, him coming back and saying, okay, I didn't do this so well, in my last lifetime. So let me come back and do it this way. And now I'm going to tap Roberta, to carry on this work in 2020. So we're a whole lot more connected. And we're and we're a lot more important, I guess, in history than we think we are.

Unknown:

It is it is quite amazing. So if you want to know how you fix fix the whole racial problem in one generation, I

Brian Smith:

do, yes.

Unknown:

Education. Um, what you do is everyone who had I think it should just be for the descendants of slavery between you and me, everyone who has at least one ancestor that was ever held here in slavery, our reparations is that our or this at birth, each of those children is a star child, we are going to teach that child from birth that he is unusual, exciting, special, important, beloved, we'll make sure that his mother knows how to help him learn things. And we know from experiments that, of course, the mothers want to have, they just often don't know how to help. But we raise those children as if they're princes and princesses, and we give them an extraordinary education are known. If we do that with one generation, we'll never have another problem racially.

Brian Smith:

Oh, I love that idea. Yeah, I love that idea. I think it's I think that's, it's excellent. It's, it's simple, but it's brilliant, because we talked about reparations, and, you know, we stumble all over it, you know, we're gonna pay any Yeah, we're gonna pay people money,

Unknown:

money to fix the problem. And that's what it would do. That's what it would do.

Brian Smith:

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's, that's a great idea. You know, Wow, I've never heard anybody say that before. I know you and I touched on it once within a conversation but the more I think about that the mark that gets it's, it would it would really change things because what people don't understand is how deep the scars go. And and their and their generational and people, that's a really difficult time understanding what it's like to be to be that an outsider, in your own in your own country. So we're coming up on over an hour. So I want to respect your time and the listeners time, I could talk to you all day long. But I do want to encourage people to to read the books, the fun books about dying and growing together. And and also your book about racial reconciliation, because I think that's another really important thing. And it all ties together again, for Christians or for non Christians. Read liberating Jesus, because Jesus is an amazing, amazing spirit that I think we're all kind of naturally attracted to America set everybody up to everybody. I've never talked to anybody says I don't like Jesus ever.

Unknown:

No till 101. Yeah.

Brian Smith:

So any any final things you want to say to wrap up our time together today?

Unknown:

No, I just want to admire you so much. You're doing such wonderful work. I sure i'm sure Shayna is thrilled with the web with the work you're doing and in spreading this love and hope and joy to people and helping them understand that there really is no death. So I just want to give you kudos for all the work you're doing.

Brian Smith:

Well, it comes full circle. As I said at the beginning. I want to wrap up with this. You know, I started listening to your podcast I wrote to you, Roberta, I know you're a lot busier. Well, you're busier than two. But you wrote back right away. And you and I started kind of a exchange, you put me in contact with an amazing medium who gave me one of the best readings I've ever had. And it just, you know, I feel like you know, we put each other on these paths. And you know, we're probably part of the same soul team.

Unknown:

I would love that. Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, maybe it's true. Yeah, I even had you blog on my blog and don't ever allow guest bloggers but I thought your story was when people needed to hear

Brian Smith:

Yeah, I really appreciate that. So it's been really great catching up with you today. I'm really glad to put this out into the world. I want to tell everybody to find your podcast seek reality. You can find her birder at Roberta Grimes calm it's Roberta G. Ri mems.com and get the books.

Unknown:

It's lovely it lovely to spend this time with you. Thank you, everybody for watching us. Thanks for Berta,

Brian Smith:

have a great rest of your day.

Unknown:

Thank you.

Brian Smith:

That's it for another episode of grief to growth. I sure hope you got something out of it. Please stay in contact with me by reaching out at www dot grief to growth calm that's grief, the number two growth.com or you can text the word growth 231996 that's simply text growth gr o wt h 231996. So if you're watching this on YouTube, please make sure you subscribe. So hit the subscribe button and then hit the little bell here and it'll notify you when I have new content. Always please share the information if you enjoy it. That helps me to get more views and to get the message out to more people. Thanks a lot and have a wonderful day.

Roberta Grimes Profile Photo

Roberta Grimes

Author / Attorney / After Life Expert

Roberta is a dear friend. Her podcast was one of the first two I discovered after Shayna passed.

Roberta is a business attorney who had two extraordinary experiences of light in childhood. She then spent decades studying nearly 200 years of abundant and consistent communications from the dead, quantum mechanics, and the nature of consciousness and she shares what she has learned about what actually is going on in an enjoyable and easily understood trilogy. The Fun of Dying – Find Out What Really Happens Next details what we now know about the afterlife. The Fun of Staying in Touch outlines some of the many ways that the dead give us signs of their survival, and also many of the ways that we can communicate with them. The Fun of Growing Forever shows you how you can use the Gospel teachings of Jesus to attain rapid spiritual growth and build your own best life, both while you are on earth and forevermore.